Kat (00:02)
Hey Tiffany.

Tiffany (00:02)
Hello Kat

Kat (00:04)
I just wanna say can you take a drink out of your water thing again real quick? Okay, that is like a giant

mason jar, right? It looks like a vase. Yeah. It's

Tiffany (00:13)
Doesn't it? This is

actually that is what it looks like. Is ac

It's not a vase. It's I got it to replace my giant Starbucks thing. yeah. So it's like a venti

Kat (00:29)
cool. Yeah. No, it's great, but it's like a mason jar. It just

Tiffany (00:32)
size.

Kat (00:33)
it reminded me, I was just like 'cause I was thinking like, who came over to my house and drank out of a vase once? And it wasn't that they were drinking out of a vase. They came over, we're like, Yeah, draw grab a glass and I have like glasses out on my bar and he like grabbed the cocktail the crystal cocktail shaker, which is like

Tiffany (00:50)
Okay.

Kat (00:51)
a good thirty six ouncer, you know, and just drank out of that all night and was like, I got no problem with that.

But that's what it reminded me of, and it was like drinking out of a vase. Huh. Anything is a a vessel to drink out of.

Tiffany (01:00)
That's amazing. I love that. Anything's a vessel.

Kat (01:05)
Yep. okay. Anyway,

let's let's get into tonight. I have a story time.

Tiffany (01:12)
Yay.

Kat (01:13)
Okay, so one of the coolest things I used to like to take visitors to in northern New Mexico

are the Earth ships. Have you heard of the Earth Ships?

Tiffany (01:22)
my yeah.

Kat (01:23)
Yeah. When you are taking the high road to Taos or going like kind of around Tierra Amaria and through to Taos, you pass these weirdly shaped buildings in the middle of the desert. And it is weird, because there's nothing else out there.

Tiffany (01:37)
Mm.

Kat (01:38)
They are off grid sustainable eco friendly buildings. And they were designed in the early 1970s as a response to the pending eco crisis.

Fifty years ago, right?

Tiffany (01:50)
Mm.

Kat (01:51)
Ha ha So they're just they're really cool. They leverage solar power, reused materials, grey water, geothermal energy, lots of that. And they're expensive as hell.

Tiffany (02:03)
huh.

Kat (02:04)
So today we're talking about off grid living, what it means for the environment, how to do it maybe, and if it's worth it. Question mark?

Tiffany (02:14)
Yeah, and like question mark maybe.

Kat (02:18)
Welcome.

To greening up my act.

so welcome to Greening Up My Act. Tiffany, would you like to explain to the lovely people at home, what are we here for?

Tiffany (02:44)
Yes, we are here to make it enjoyable for people to learn whether or not something is actually eco-friendly.

or if it's all just marketing fluff.

Kat (02:57)
Right. Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (02:58)
We which we like to call Green Hooey

Kat (03:00)
thank you for joining us. I did have a bunch of sources. You can look them up in the notes. AI I did click a lot of links and read the articles and not just take the AI summary, but some of the AI summary stuff I used, and I realized that some of these some of these links are like, who are these people? So,

Tiffany (03:17)
Mm.

Well, I mean, we're also talking about off grid living, so I don't know how many like

Kat (03:21)
Yeah, exactly.

Tiffany (03:23)
scientific studies there are out there, so

Kat (03:24)
Right. And

and again, I said last week that this is gonna kind of be vibes. So, yeah. Yeah. This is the last day of school. Yeah. Yes. This is the last day of school. We're cleaning out our desk and we're vibing.

Tiffany (03:30)
Yeah, which I love. And it's the it's the end of our season. It's like like like you said last time, we're not being graded. So nobody's grading us on any of this. So Yes. We're throwing our papers in the hallway.

Kat (03:46)
Yeah, we're watching a movie in every class, and that's that's what this is.

Tiffany (03:49)
Mm. Exactly.

Kat (03:52)
So

What are we talking about tonight? Off grid living, right? Okay. And this so my first question here is what does that conjure for you specifically, Tiffany?

Tiffany (04:04)
Honestly, the show called Homestead Rescue. Have you heard of it? Did I mention this?

Kat (04:07)
Okay. No. Yeah,

I think you might have mentioned I haven't watched it. I probably have heard of it. I just haven't watched it.

Tiffany (04:12)
It's

a fabulous show because it's a bunch of homesteaders wannabe I will say wannabe homesteaders who don't know what the hell they're doing and just go out and live in the middle of nowhere and try to survive even though they have no skills.

Kat (04:29)
Right. Okay. So that's kind of when I think off grid living, I think doomsday preppers. So people who are like, I don't trust the government. I'm

Tiffany (04:38)
Mm.

Kat (04:39)
not gonna let the govern I'm gonna be off grid. And and like I have people in mind that I have known in my life who are like off grid living is the way to go. I'm planning on I have a plan to execute it. And like they knew what they were doing.

but

It to me, yeah, when I think off grid, I think of pretty anti government people generally.

Tiffany (05:01)
Yeah.

Kat (05:02)
not necessarily environmentalists, which is interesting. 'Cause

Tiffany (05:05)
Yeah.

Kat (05:07)
they used to be both. And I guess they kinda a lot of environmentalists are pretty anti government in a lot of way still. But mostly when you think anti government now you kinda think January sixth, you know, it's

Tiffany (05:17)
Yeah, it's changed.

Kat (05:19)
changed. So

But I think, you know, it's kind of one of those places where they can kind of meet in the middle and like, I don't trust the government, you don't trust the government, let's not trust the government together and not plug into

Tiffany (05:28)
Mm.

Kat (05:29)
the grid. So what what off grid living really means is a living situation that is not connected to any utility, right?

Tiffany (05:39)
Okay.

Kat (05:39)
That means not electricity, no gas lines, water and sewage are also included. If you are fully off grid, it's everything. So

Nobody's coming to pick up your trash. you're gonna have to have your own septic tank, you have your own like well system and electricity is self generated if you have any at all.

heating, fuel for cooking, etc. You are providing that yourself. You are not connecting to any utility lines.

Tiffany (06:08)
Right.

Kat (06:09)
That is probably actually the only choice in certain rural areas.

Tiffany (06:14)
Well yeah, and I was gonna say like we talked about like people who are off grid not by choice last episode.

Kat (06:20)
Yeah, but for most Americans or people in, you know, the global north, as we call it, you good likelihood you are on grid or have the choice to be on grid, at least. so there's also some discussion about how off grid do you have to be to be truly off grid. So

Tiffany (06:43)
interesting.

Kat (06:44)
what if you have a four G network or a satellite phone? Is that still off grid?

'Cause those are technically a grid,

Tiffany (06:48)
Mm.

Kat (06:50)
right? And what about eco communities that create their own grid? So they're off major

Tiffany (06:56)
Hmm.

Kat (06:57)
grid, but you can have like a like you know,

Tiffany (06:59)
Mm.

Kat (07:00)
I think some of the ones you sent me create their own grid. So

Tiffany (07:02)
Yeah.

Kat (07:03)
it's a lot of semantics, basically.

Tiffany (07:05)
Mm.

Kat (07:06)
So one of the sites that I looked at said that one of the things you ha you have to realize the difference between self consumption

And off grid living. Okay. This is

Tiffany (07:17)
Hmm.

Kat (07:17)
a distinction you need to make. So self consumption means you generate your own power, like through solar, but

Tiffany (07:23)
Okay. Mm-hmm.

Kat (07:24)
you're still connected to the grid. Right?

Tiffany (07:28)
Okay.

Kat (07:28)
So you can contribute to that grid, right? Like my dad had solar panels on the house and created his own power and then would sell energy back to the grid when he made more.

Tiffany (07:37)
Okay. Yeah.

Kat (07:40)
And if he didn't create enough solar energy in a day to power the home.

He was still connected to the grid so he could tap back into it, right? self consumption.

Tiffany (07:47)
Okay. Yeah. You that's called self consumption? Okay.

Kat (07:52)
And I think there might be self consumption for water as well, but it's mostly talking about energy here. so off grid systems technically do not tap into any utilities. So you're on your own if your own system fails, right? Which is an important

Tiffany (08:05)
Mm, mm.

Kat (08:06)
distinction. But you're also not giving back into the bigger system.

Tiffany (08:12)
Right. Okay. Okay.

Kat (08:13)
So there's that.

So it all kind of depends on your own purity tests, like the semantics,

Tiffany (08:18)
Yeah.

Kat (08:19)
what you think the goals of off-grid living are, right? Is it to be completely disconnected from the city because you don't trust them? Or is it, you know, a lot of these these communities, they're interested in kind of getting back in touch with the earth. That's a different kind of off-grid living.

Tiffany (08:34)
Mm. Yeah, totally.

Kat (08:36)
So and I said this kind of last week, but

People will point out that human beings have been living off grid for most of our history, 'cause like there wasn't a grid. There haven't been utilities for very long, right?

Tiffany (08:47)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (08:49)
And a lot of the movements we were just talking about are aligned with off grid living like reindigeniz indigenization so

going back to the land and permaculture both.

Tiffany (08:59)
Yeah, yeah. Right.

Kat (09:02)
where people are leaving urban life and trying to get back to living off the land in more natural ways.

Tiffany (09:07)
Right.

Kat (09:07)
Again, it's the goals of your off grid living, why you're doing it and what you want from it kind of defines what off grid living will mean, right?

Tiffany (09:15)
Yeah.

Kat (09:16)
'cause I was saying my next point was like it's also for people who just don't trust society or the government and believe that being dependent on public utilities, which are becoming increasingly privatized, is a great

Tiffany (09:24)
Right.

Kat (09:24)
way to usher yourself straight into apocalypse of your own making. You know? Like if I wanna s you know, it's some some people will go so far as to say like your utilities are a way for the government to control you, right? If they get to say how

Tiffany (09:35)
Mm.

Kat (09:36)
much power you have and things like that, like

Tiffany (09:38)
Which the way my power bill's going doesn't seem so crazy anymore.

Kat (09:40)
I know. Nope.

And you know, we have brownouts and things.

Tiffany (09:45)
Right.

Kat (09:48)
so yeah, it's

Tiffany (09:49)
None of it seems crazy. It I

think yeah, when I said that that's what I think of when I think of off grid living, that is what I used to think of. but I'm learning so much now in my class and like

Kat (10:00)
Yeah.

Tiffany (10:01)
just other sources and I'm just like, and I have eyes

Kat (10:06)
Right. Exactly.

I

do not I mean, the trauma that I went through in twenty twenty one when we had that big freeze and I didn't have power for a

Tiffany (10:15)
Yeah.

Kat (10:16)
week was enough for me to be like I have got to figure out a way to get solar s and have a battery just so I can heat my home for three days, even on a minimal level and even air conditioning here. if we have s you know

Two summers ago, I think it was it got up to a hundred and ten for several days, and like our grid can't handle that. The Texas grid

Tiffany (10:36)
Right.

Kat (10:37)
infrastructure in this country has not been cared for.

Tiffany (10:39)
No, exactly.

Kat (10:41)
okay, so off-grid living does make some eco-friendly claims, right? So most off-grid claims around sustainable living are really about number one, reduced carbon emissions. by bypassing traditional power grids that rely on coal or gas, off-grid homes significantly decrease their carbon footprint, right?

it's also to increase like sustainable awareness. if you are generating your own power, you're much more likely to be w aware of how much you're using because there's a finite resource of it. So

Tiffany (11:17)
Right. Yeah.

Kat (11:18)
you're gonna be have

Be more conservation minded. And that's true for water too,

Tiffany (11:22)
Yeah, totally.

Kat (11:24)
so if your water is collected from rain or wells, you have to be more mindful about using it compared to just like turning on your tap and getting unended water supply.

Tiffany (11:34)
Yeah.

Kat (11:35)
One of the issues that off grid people propose is that the government is not choosing to do renewable energy sources. So choosing to do them yourself especially if you go off grid completely, removes you from using coal burning energy at all. So you're removing your household from the equation.

Tiffany (11:58)
Mm.

Kat (11:59)
So that's one way of looking at it.

It can also save on energy costs for you, obviously, generating your own power. you are immune to energy price spikes, basically, if you're using your own power,

as long as you're using like solar energy or wind energy for your home rather than like propane, which is another thing.

Tiffany (12:22)
Right.

Yeah.

Kat (12:24)
a lot of these kind of newer places that are living off the grid are

Trying to get back into being like self-sustaining communities also fully. I mean,

Tiffany (12:34)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kat (12:36)
when I'm thinking the off the grid like in Chama, New Mexico, I was looking at an off the grid house and it had propane for heat and cooking and like solar for other electricity, you know, and had a well for water and all this stuff. It didn't have a plot to grow your own food, right? I would still go to the grocery store. I was just

Tiffany (12:54)
Right. Yeah.

Kat (12:57)
off grid for energy and water.

Right.

Tiffany (13:00)
Right.

Kat (13:01)
but these kind of intentional communities are about being self sustaining on every level. So off grid means not being in the grid to the grocery store. That's part of a grid too,

Tiffany (13:11)
Mm-hmm.

I have thoughts on that because I think it's just sort of like a culmination of a bunch of things and the fact that everything is so expensive now and there are new like this frickin' lettuce s cyclospora or whatever the hell is like infecting all these people. And it's just like

Kat (13:28)
my gosh. Yeah.

Tiffany (13:31)
that seems like it's more and more common and

Kat (13:34)
Yes.

Tiffany (13:35)
it's just it's so f it's so frustrating.

I think it's like my class combined with this woman that I'm watching on YouTube, it sounds like it might be like a trad wife, but she's not. it's like becoming a farm girl is her YouTube name. And she

Basically teaches you how to cook like your grandma did, but like her whole thing is that she looks at like grain reports and like crop reports and she can predict what you need to buy now versus you know, we always think like everything's gonna be available at all times whenever we need it.

Kat (14:13)
Right. No, exactly.

Tiffany (14:14)
But she says like our grandparents

would be producers instead of consumers and they would produce for themselves and then the grocery store was sort of an additive. And we have completely lost that because we think

Kat (14:30)
Right.

Tiffany (14:31)
we don't need to anymore. And it's like

Kat (14:34)
And for

probably fifty years we didn't, but it's come back to now we do.

Tiffany (14:37)
Yeah. And it's kind

of to be honest, it's like kind of scary to think about, but it's also really inspiring. And I think because I have a crazy, crazy ass garden out there, I have stories, but like I am growing I am growing my own food and I'm like kind of learning how

Kat (14:56)
To just use the grocery store as a supplement.

Yeah.

Tiffany (14:58)
Yeah.

And like I made pickles the other day. I wanna get a pressure canner. I s I made my own sourdough starter. Like I'm just trying all this shit and I don't know

Kat (15:04)
nice. Yeah.

Tiffany (15:06)
what I'm doing, but I'm trying it. My dad knows how to pressure can actually 'cause he learned from my grandma. I'm like, you need to come over and teach me, but it's just I don't know. It's just this kind of crazy thing that we think is always gonna be available.

Kat (15:22)
Or that it always has been. And again, like

Tiffany (15:24)
Yeah.

Kat (15:25)
I was saying last week, this is very new.

Tiffany (15:27)
Yes.

Kat (15:28)
The the Western American lifestyle is super new to how human beings live, to have food available without having to do any touching of the land at all. And to not know where

Tiffany (15:41)
Yeah.

Kat (15:41)
it comes from, and to not know how much of a supply there is. Like mm-hmm.

Tiffany (15:43)
And Yeah, and I think just mentally it

it messes you up as a human, I think, to not have any connection at all. Like I'm

Kat (15:51)
On some level, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (15:54)
growing just cucumbers and like a couple of other things. But that has made me feel it's just like I don't know, it made me it makes you feel like a producer again instead of just a consumer. I think it's really important.

Kat (16:05)
Yeah.

yeah. Yeah.

On that note, I say we take a a

Tiffany (16:11)
Yeah. we take a Yes.

Kat (16:13)
break and then I'm gonna go back to our do these eco friendly claims and you come back to Earth. Sh you know. All right.

Tiffany (16:17)
All right. Perfect.

Kat (16:34)
Okay, welcome back. So classically in these episodes we've asked, do these eco-friendly claims need to come back to Earth? And then we talk about like, does this make sense? Does it hold water? So we like and I think this is increasingly the answer. It's complicated, right?

Tiffany (16:48)
Mm.

Kat (16:50)
So there are a few things about a lot of off-grid living,

A lot of off-grid properties still rely on fossil fuels like propane, gas, or even domestic heating oil to run their generators or heat their homes. So it's not like you're gonna be zero carbon in a lot of instances.

Tiffany (17:07)
Okay. Mm-hmm.

Kat (17:09)
the upfront carbon cost of solar panels is not nothing. We talked about that. They take an extensive amount of energy to create, as well as chemicals and processes that aren't carbon neutral, whatever that means, right?

but in an off-grid living situation, you are creating a culture that is focused on being more sustainable rather than trying to continue your life of American energy luxury without changing anything. Usually because you are forced to. Like if you have to

physically figure out a way to refill that propane tank when it runs out, you're gonna be hyper aware of when you leave it on.

Tiffany (17:44)
Mm.

Kat (17:45)
If you only have so much solar energy that you can use, you are not just gonna leave the TV on all the time, you know. So even if you are using fossil fuels on some level, it's probably gonna be less. Couldn't find numbers on that necessarily.

Tiffany (18:00)
Yeah, like I said, there's probably not many studies.

Kat (18:03)
Yeah.

But it is you're just gonna be more aware.

Tiffany (18:05)
Mm.

Kat (18:07)
and I think that's never a bad thing.

Tiffany (18:09)
Yeah.

Kat (18:11)
So the other question that we've asked is is this something a normal person can do or afford? Okay. This is where off-grid living gets a little bit funky, right?

Tiffany (18:21)
Okay. Yeah.

Kat (18:23)
Biggest issue with off-grid living is upfront costs. You've got to I mean land, building,

Tiffany (18:30)
Mm.

Kat (18:31)
infrastructure for power, water, comp composting, etc., and then you've got maintenance.

Tiffany (18:36)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (18:37)
So I don't know.

if you could turn this house in the city of Austin off grid? Probably not. That would be very difficult. I

Tiffany (18:48)
Yeah. If you just

turned off all your electricity and then I don't know. Yeah.

Kat (18:52)
A

Like water and sewage, I would

I don't have a well, you know, like all kinds of that kind of stuff. You gotta be in the right place for that. And you gotta have money to buy that kind of place. So there's that. If owning a three bedroom home is currently out of your reach, starting your own off grid living is definitely out of your reach. Okay. So Google AI butted in at this point and gave me a bunch of cost breakdowns, which I was like fine.

I will copy paste this. So estimating your initial setup costs, your upfront capital. They divided it into low end or minimalist setup and high end or comfort setup, right?

Tiffany (19:30)
Okay.

Kat (19:31)
Your raw land purchase, you're gonna need anywhere from fifteen hundred to five thousand per acre in a remote and arid area. That's for low end. For high end, you're gonna need ten thousand to fifteen thousand plus per acre for fertile or accessible land. That seems kind of high per acre, but maybe not. No, I guess that's not.

Then you're gonna need to create a shelter, right? For a tiny home, you can get fifteen thousand to forty five thousand for a small cabin yurt, a yurt or an RV. Okay. Or you're gonna need anywhere

Tiffany (19:59)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (20:00)
from a hundred fifty thousand to a three hundred thousand dollar custom off grid house,

Tiffany (20:04)
Yeah.

How much are earth ships? Do you know?

Kat (20:08)
it depends. They're pretty I think they're in the millions. Yeah. Well, because they're custom.

Tiffany (20:10)
You said they're expensive. yi. Okay.

Uhhuh.

Kat (20:14)
And most of them come pre set up.

'cause they're a planned community.

Tiffany (20:16)
Okay. Yeah.

Kat (20:19)
Your solar power can cost you anywhere from two thousand to fifty thousand, you know, with a battery and a bank for the whole house. You got water access for a

Rainwater catching system and filtration, two thousand to four thousand. If you're gonna do drilling a deep well and a pump system, up to fifteen thousand.

Tiffany (20:36)
Yeah.

Kat (20:38)
You got twenty five hundred for a composting toilet or outhouse, and then you got it up to ten thousand for a permitted septic tank system. So that adds up, right?

Tiffany (20:49)
Mm-hmm.

Totally.

Kat (20:51)
At least half a million probably for a comfortable high end home. You could maybe get away with a hundred thousand for a low end setup. Just kinda

Tiffany (21:05)
Yeah.

Kat (21:05)
depending. The other thing is on those low end setups you're probably gonna have to keep paying into it to keep things going. 'Cause those high

Tiffany (21:12)
Right.

Kat (21:13)
end systems are gonna come custom built and like ready to go. But

Tiffany (21:15)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kat (21:16)
these other ones you're gonna add like you gotta move the outhouse, you know?

Tiffany (21:19)
Mm.

Kat (21:20)
So then there's monthly maintenance. So that's the ongoing expense. A primitive budget said, you know, you have to still deal with fuel infrastructure keep up and resource delivery. So a primitive budget is about $800 a month if you already own forage or harvest your own f food, you know, you can maybe get away for $800 a month on upkeep, $500 to $800 in a primitive

Tiffany (21:46)
Okay.

Kat (21:46)
setup.

Modern or cold climate budget is up to is twenty five hundred or more. What just happened? I don't know why my

Five room.

Tiffany (22:01)
You're not

if you're not watching on YouTube, you're missing out.

Kat (22:05)
Yeah, my robot. Hi Ospot, you can move.

Tiffany (22:08)
Her camera just zoomed right in on her face.

Kat (22:10)
It just zoomed right

in on me. It just decided I needed to be the star of the show. Okay, I guess because I was using my hands too much. okay. So you r real-world homesteaders in harsh northern climates report spending up to $10,000 a year just on propane, diesel, and firewood to maintain full heating electricity. So maybe if you're in a less a more temperate climate, you don't have to deal with that. Again, air conditioning costs too. I'm sorry, my com it I don't know how to zoom out.

Tiffany (22:37)
I don't know either. Yeah.

Kat (22:38)
We're stuck here with right up my nose. Okay.

And then the other thing is other aspects you have to take into account. So even if you are off grid, there are zoning and land laws you have to follow.

Tiffany (22:50)
Mm.

Kat (22:51)
there's minimum square footage homes, legal connections to like some some places will force you to to be connected for emergencies.

Tiffany (23:00)
Mm.

Kat (23:02)
You can't use a composting toilet everywhere. You can't just drill a well wherever you want.

Tiffany (23:08)
You can't have certain animals everywhere.

Kat (23:09)
Right. There's all kinds of things you have to look out for that, you know, you need do you need permitting in advance or be prepared to pay fines, you know. So you you gotta do all that research. there's something called the double what you expect rule. So

Tiffany (23:23)
Right.

Kat (23:24)
off-grid builds suffer from heavy hidden costs. A single long gravel driveway repair or clearing raw land can cost up to five thousand dollars before you even lay a foundation, Like you're even if you get land

you pay you paid fifteen thousand dollars an acre for that land, you still gotta clear it and level it and, you know, all those things.

You can buy, like I was looking at a pre-made

Tiffany (23:45)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (23:46)
off-grid home in Chama where all I would have to worry about was the maintenance cost at that point. It was already set up. It had propane, it had a well, all these things.

Tiffany (23:51)
Okay. Okay.

Kat (23:54)
My dad talked me out of it because of the maintenance. Like I'm not a do-it-yourself kind of girl. He's

Tiffany (23:58)
Right, right.

Kat (23:59)
like, you're not gonna want to go start a generator at three o'clock in the morning in the winter. You know, all these things. Right.

Tiffany (24:04)
Yeah.

Kat (24:05)
I've I'm not that kind of girl. You also

may be able to join an existing off grid community, right?

Tiffany (24:13)
Okay.

Kat (24:15)
Like the airships maybe, but those sustainable communities you were or intentional communities you were talking about.

Tiffany (24:19)
Yeah, we had an episode about that.

Kat (24:21)
Yeah.

There are some.

Tiffany (24:22)
Which

Kat (24:23)
Yeah, they are a mixed bag. There are some that don't require

Tiffany (24:25)
Yeah.

Kat (24:26)
upfront payments and you can work for your living.

if you are ready to just give everything up and go, yeah, you can do that. but also they can be selective.

Tiffany (24:36)
Yeah,

I was gonna say there's a rigid application on some the one I looked at, I was like, wow.

Kat (24:39)
Yes. Yeah. These

the community often intentional community tends to be built around existing types of like minded people, right?

Tiffany (24:48)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (24:49)
So you might not get a lot of diversity of thought or skin color or economic background, you know?

Tiffany (24:54)
Mm. Mm.

Kat (24:57)
which is important to me to consider for like my understanding of the world, is I do want

Tiffany (25:02)
Yeah.

Kat (25:02)
there to be diversity of that.

also consider that one of the reasons we developed grids in the first place is so someone else could handle the issues while we all specialize in our own professions and so that we

Tiffany (25:15)
Mm.

Kat (25:15)
all benefit all together, right?

Tiffany (25:19)
Yes. That is I think w the biggest factor for me is like on this homestead rescue show. do you know the difference between homesteader and off grid person? I don't know. They overlap, I think.

Kat (25:33)
I feel like yeah,

there is over I think homesteaders that also would definitely include the farming,

Tiffany (25:42)
Mm.

Kat (25:42)
right? And kind of a making everything from scratch. An off grid to me could even just be like I was saying, I could have bought that house in Chama, have an off grid house and still go to the grocery store and still, you know, So I think

Tiffany (25:54)
Right. Yeah.

Kat (25:56)
a homesteader is more about growing your own food. It's like getting

Tiffany (25:59)
Right.

Kat (25:59)
off the food chain grid.

As well as not just the

Tiffany (26:01)
Yeah, yeah.

Kat (26:02)
utilities grid.

Tiffany (26:03)
Right. But yeah, all of them like moved out to the middle of nowhere and had no neighbors and that's how they wanted it and they had no community. And in my mind, that is my worst nightmare.

Kat (26:17)
Yeah.

I well and I think the worst kind of modern elitism I can think of

Tiffany (26:24)
Right.

Kat (26:25)
is I am so right in my thinking that I don't even want to be exposed to other people who don't agree with me. Like

Tiffany (26:32)
Right.

Kat (26:33)
like to the point that I don't want them touching my food or my sp you know, it's like

That's terrifying. And and so entitled, right? Like I am

Tiffany (26:45)
Yeah. And it's

sad because it's like

Y you don't feel like you need to help other people. You don't feel like other people can help you? Like

Kat (26:52)
Right. Right.

Tiffany (26:55)
what?

Kat (26:56)
Yeah.

I I get a mistrust of the government. Again,

Tiffany (27:00)
Yeah.

Kat (27:02)
only growing as our infrastructure fails us and

Tiffany (27:04)
Yeah.

Kat (27:04)
corruption runs rampant and you know they

Tiffany (27:06)
Yeah.

Kat (27:07)
yeah, we don't have an FDA or a C D C that's really doing anything right now, it feels like, you know. so food supply is terrifying in a lot of ways.

Tiffany (27:15)
Mm.

Kat (27:16)
and energy is like kinda up in the air. Like,

those are all very valid questions. I think removing yourself from all society altogether, get it, I get it, but I think it's the wrong answer. And I will be kind of judgy about that.

Tiffany (27:31)
Yeah.

Kat (27:32)
It's very elitist and very self harming, I think. yeah,

Tiffany (27:37)
Yeah.

Kat (27:37)
as I sit here never leaving the house. But you know, I do still have community and and I

Tiffany (27:42)
Yeah, I was gonna say.

Kat (27:44)
And and like we were saying in our community episode, we are already so removed from community. We have so few third spaces and so few places where we are around strangers who are not in the same situation we are in, right?

Tiffany (27:59)
Right.

Yeah,

did you watch that short video that I s th I linked? Okay. Yeah.

Kat (28:02)
Yes. Yes. Yeah.

So that's an intentional community,

Tiffany (28:06)
so it was this, they're kind of famous in the permaculture world, but they're the Bullock brothers, kind of like Sandra Bullock. But I loved how he said

aim for resilience, not self sufficiency, because Yeah.

Kat (28:20)
Right, you're not here to cut yourself off. Yeah.

Tiffany (28:24)
we're not s as human beings, we're not supposed to go it alone. And it w did he say the butcher the he's like you should yeah, he's like y

Kat (28:32)
Yes. Find a

find a trade. Everybody needs a butcher, everybody needs a carpenter, everybody needs a yeah.

Tiffany (28:37)
my god. Yeah, we

have to link this video because it's like a two minute video, but he says so many insightful things. But yeah,

Kat (28:41)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (28:43)
he's like talking about how people used to encourage their kids to Yes,

Kat (28:49)
Learn a trade with college. Yeah.

Tiffany (28:51)
like go to university but also f learn a trade for when a depression comes. And we've completely lost that. And

Kat (28:56)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (28:58)
he's like, people just don't have actual skills and it's like,

Kat (29:01)
Yeah.

Tiffany (29:01)
it is so true.

Kat (29:03)
Yeah. I know I'm always like, well, it's my skill. I'm a great storyteller. Nobody needs that.

I am very good at okay, well

Tiffany (29:11)
That I I disagree with that, but yeah.

Kat (29:14)
no. But like yes, storytelling is important. But I do have other practical skills. I do know how to cook. I do know,

Tiffany (29:20)
Right.

Kat (29:20)
I can make bread from scratch. I can you know, all these things. I c I have I have that. I can

Tiffany (29:23)
Mm-hmm. Make a mean cocktail, I'm guessing.

Kat (29:26)
yeah. The most important things. I can make a mean cocktail. But yeah, like I I can do things like not like Sean can. Sean can build stuff, you know.

Tiffany (29:34)
Mm.

Kat (29:35)
But yeah, learn something like w learning how to butcher an animal.

Probably great idea. Learning how to identify edible plants, probably a good idea. Good skill to have.

Tiffany (29:43)
Yeah.

Kat (29:43)
But like, yeah, learning h knowing how to sew. Great skill to have.

Tiffany (29:46)
Yeah. Yeah,

he was like, Aim for the butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker, like actual practical people that you need in your community. Yeah.

Kat (29:50)
Yeah. Yeah, be useful. And

and again he was saying to be a producer rather than a consumer, you know?

Tiffany (29:58)
Mm.

Kat (30:00)
And I I like that idea. Yeah.

Tiffany (30:02)
I loved it. I thought it's

just so totally different than Yep. Yep.

Kat (30:07)
How we think of things. Yeah. It's all

how am I gonna make the most money? Okay, how about how about how am I gonna help our community when everything when the wheels fall off? Can

Tiffany (30:15)
Right.

Kat (30:16)
it be the way and right to put the wheels back on? Yeah.

Tiffany (30:18)
Yes.

But I don't think it works if you're only producing for yourself. Maybe it does,

Kat (30:23)
No, I agree.

Tiffany (30:24)
but I just don't think it's the same.

Kat (30:27)
Well, and that's that's a dire circumstance. Like

Tiffany (30:30)
Mm.

Kat (30:32)
only producing for yourself is like zombie apocalypse. Here's the thing about apocalypse. It is not ever you have to fend from the zombie hordes. It's not ever gonna be that. It's going to be the grocery stores aren't stocking food as often. They're n it's not that

They're not stocking food. It's just unreliable. I mean, we're kind of already in it. Some of the food is unreliable. We don't know

Tiffany (30:55)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (30:57)
when the cyclospora is gonna be bad. And that, you know, won't always kill you, but it could kill some of you. You know, there might not be eggs,

Tiffany (31:05)
Yeah, and it has. Yeah.

Kat (31:08)
and so it's already happening. Yes.

Tiffany (31:09)
Peppers, like yeah.

Or it costs so much that it's cost prohibitive. And you're like, I can't afford that. Are you crazy?

Kat (31:14)
Right. So

yeah. And it's not gonna be all at once that there's some asteroid that hits, you know? It's just like yeah, the roads aren't getting repaired and

Tiffany (31:26)
Mm.

Kat (31:27)
yeah, I can't rely on the electricity in Texas to be there during a freeze. So okay. And in that situation, can I be the neighbor who has the wormhouse that people can come to in the neighborhood, you know?

Tiffany (31:41)
Right.

Kat (31:44)
It's not can I defend my warm house from my neighbors who n you know, it's

Tiffany (31:47)
Yes.

Kat (31:48)
it's gonna be a th a three day stretch where people can come here and I have w running water and heat.

Tiffany (31:55)
Right.

Kat (31:55)
Not, Whoa, they all gotta move into my fort Fort Kat you know. Like not this year. Maybe in fifty years. But

Tiffany (32:00)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Get out of guns. Yeah. Right.

Kat (32:05)
it the the apocalypse is slow and less drastic than you think. And that is the issue.

Tiffany (32:08)
Right, right.

Kat (32:11)
So my kind of take on this was I think self consumption is an easier target to hit, you know, if you don't have a million dollars to go really live off grid or you're willing

Tiffany (32:21)
Yeah.

Kat (32:22)
to throw everything away and go I mean you know, living out of an R V can be considered off grid, you know?

Tiffany (32:27)
Mm.

Kat (32:28)
Self consumption might be an easier target. Again,

Tiffany (32:30)
Yeah.

Kat (32:31)
it's still twenty five thousand, thirty thousand dollars to get solar and a battery at your house.

Tiffany (32:35)
Mm.

Kat (32:37)
it probably a good idea to just do if you can, depending on where you live. It it can help the overall grid be cleaner, right? If if

Tiffany (32:46)
Right.

Kat (32:47)
if we are electrifying our homes through solar rather than coal anyway, it can we can reduce that part of, fossil fuel stuff. And also y

Tiffany (32:58)
Yeah.

Kat (32:59)
you can contribute back to the grid, right? Which can

Tiffany (33:02)
Yeah, which is really interesting.

Kat (33:03)
can make it more resilient.

Tiffany (33:05)
Yeah.

Kat (33:06)
For others as well. So

Tiffany (33:07)
We have an absolute boatload of sun.

Kat (33:10)
Yeah. Yeah. We do here in Texas for sure. Yeah.

Tiffany (33:13)
beating down on our house all summer. So

Kat (33:16)
So look into solar.

So it really depends. If if a normal person can do this, where you are, how much money, time and ability you have or are willing to learn and how much you're willing to change, you know.

Tiffany (33:28)
Mm.

Yeah, and my teacher had a really good story about one of her friends. hi Kelda if you're listening.

Kat (33:36)
Hi, Kelda.

Tiffany (33:37)
she one of her friends she said wanted to r brush her daughter's hair more often.

And so she moved I think she moved from the city or at least from like a more suburban area to the mountains. But this woman was working in the city. So

Kat (33:57)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (33:57)
she her commute basically like doubled or tripled. So she actually had less time, even though she was living in the middle of nowhere.

Kat (34:00)
Yep. Yep.

That's like an O. Henry story. Yeah.

Tiffany (34:06)
Yeah. And it's like, i it's sort of just like this dream world. It's like it's good in theory, but the reality, yes. And so, yeah, she

Kat (34:13)
Yeah. Is your actual life gonna fit into it? Yeah.

Tiffany (34:19)
was saying like, there's a lot of ways you you can get what you want where you are. And it doesn't mean you have to move to the middle of nowhere. So

Kat (34:28)
Yeah.

No, I and I think that's totally true. Like there are again those those risks that you don't think about until you do it. Like it sounds ideal and it sounds wonderful, but yeah.

Tiffany (34:37)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kat (34:40)
I have thought like, I would love to live in the country and then it's like I like being able to walk to a bar, you know? I can't even live in the suburbs.

I wanna have a coffee shop I can walk to, I wanna have a library I can walk to, I wanna have a bar I can walk to.

Tiffany (34:52)
Mm.

Kat (34:52)
So I'm not gonna move. Even if it's cheaper for me to live in the hinterlands.

Tiffany (34:59)
Right.

Kat (35:00)
It's not for the type of life I wanna lead, not cheaper in the long run. So yeah.

Tiffany (35:05)
Yeah, yeah, exactly,

Kat (35:08)
And I I know that about

Tiffany (35:09)
Yeah, totally.

Kat (35:11)
So for granola rating, so every week we rate the system service product, whatever, on a scale of one to five granolas. one being bad, five being best. and it's a crunchiness scale where, you know, one is soggy, two is mushy, three is chewy, four is crunchy, and five is break your twos off. I was kind of back and forth between a three and a four on this one.

Tiffany (35:39)
Okay.

Kat (35:39)
I think it's a really

great dream ideal. And like

Tiffany (35:43)
Yeah.

Kat (35:44)
maybe in twenty years we're all gonna be forced back off grid just like our ancestors were, you know?

Tiffany (35:49)
Mm.

Kat (35:50)
I don't think it's accessible to everyone as a decision that you can make.

Or that it's it's not something that I would be like, Yeah, this is something absolute I mean, it would be cool to say yes, this is something absolutely everyone could do. And I did see some articles out there that were like, Yes, everyone should do this.

I can't judge people like that. I can't you know,

Tiffany (36:06)
Mm.

Kat (36:07)
like, yeah, I get why you don't live off grid. I get why I don't live off grid, you know?

Tiffany (36:12)
Yeah.

Kat (36:13)
So between a maybe a maybe a three, just for how kind of inaccessible it is to most people. Still a good idea.

Tiffany (36:22)
Okay. Yeah.

Kat (36:24)
And I think we can all use a lot of the ideals of off grid living for our own lives. Like Yeah.

Tiffany (36:28)
Yeah, totally. And yeah, and try to implement them into our own lives.

Kat (36:33)
Limit consumption, you know. Use it like it's not an unlimited resource, you know, 'cause it's not.

Tiffany (36:40)
Yeah.

Mhm. Yeah. Grow a tomato plant, like whatever.

Kat (36:45)
yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (36:47)
Grow an Eff It garden.

Kat (36:48)
Yeah.

Supplement, supplement, supplement. So, yeah, that was off grid living. Yeah. Vibes. Vibes. Close up of my face vibes. I think just

Tiffany (36:54)
Nice. I liked it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Close up vibes.

There you go.

It's kind of like my electric vehicle. We at least a Ford Mustang Mach-E. And I'm not gonna say I recommended it to anybody because guess what? They put a frickin' button. They wanted to

Kat (37:17)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (37:18)
be like Tesla. They put a button where there should be a handle. If that button worked every time you pushed it, that would be one thing.

Kat (37:24)
There. I

hate it. Yes.

Tiffany (37:27)
Wait, how do you know it? Do you know somebody with one?

Kat (37:29)
I have been in one.

Tiffany (37:31)
yeah.

And you're like, push, push, push, push. Maybe five that the fifth time you'll be like

Kat (37:35)
Hey open. Hey. It's like you wanted to open the door?

Tiffany (37:41)
Yeah. I'm like, you don't know how much I miss handles. I'm like, why? And like every single person I drop Charlie off every day. Every single person's like, I don't know how to get in your car. I'm like, I know. I'm so sorry.

Kat (37:44)
Mm. I just want the physical thing. Yeah. I know. I know.

Tiffany (37:51)
I have to roll the window down. Just push the button. It's ridiculo and there's not even

Kat (37:54)
Yeah. Push it five times.

Tiffany (37:56)
like it's like a button you push and it pops open and you're like,

Kat (37:58)
Yeah. How

do I override this? Yeah.

Tiffany (38:01)
What do I do? Yeah. Do

I just pull it open? Yeah, it's

Kat (38:05)
Yeah.

Tiffany (38:06)
very dumb. So overengineering is creating problems that we shouldn't have.

Kat (38:08)
Yeah. Yep. Yeah.

I just miss my hand crank roll down windows too. Although it is nice to just be able to hit a button, yeah. But when they don't work, then you miss the hand crank. Yeah.

Tiffany (38:14)
I know, right? I actually don't. I really don't, yeah. True. Or if they get stuck, yeah.

Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. It's so true. But yeah, having to try to hand crank over the seat. that was the worst. I

Kat (38:28)
Yeah.

Tiffany (38:30)
remember I had my f my little Honda Civic was a hand crank window, two thousand eight. Wait, that's not even right. Nineteen ninety eight, sorry. I was like, that was way too new.

Kat (38:40)
Okay. Yeah.

Tiffany (38:43)
Yeah, nineteen ninety eight. And I think every o other one of my friends had like electronic or electric windows. And

Kat (38:51)
Yeah.

Tiffany (38:52)
I was just like, Hold on a second. And if you haven't done it, it's our channel. Yes. You're like, damn

Kat (38:54)
yeah, or and if and if you have it down and it starts raining and you're like, wait for a stoplight to roll it up, yeah. There is that.

Tiffany (39:01)
it. Yeah. So funny. So good. All right, well, that was our season. Wow. Wrap it up. Nice.

Kat (39:08)
Season ten is done. Good job, Us. Yeah.

Tiffany (39:12)
End on vibes.

I love it. Yeah.

Kat (39:13)
Yes. Off grid vibes. But

yeah, we are doing season eleven starting October first and we are going to do some listener requests. So if you have

Tiffany (39:24)
Yeah.

Kat (39:24)
one, still. There's still time. We c we might

Tiffany (39:27)
There is.

Kat (39:27)
combine things. We might we're still we've kinda got a calendar, but if you have an idea, we have some fun ideas, but send it

Tiffany (39:34)
Yeah.

Kat (39:35)
in.

Tiffany (39:36)
Yeah. Send it to us on Instagram, we're at greening up my act, or on Facebook, Greening Up My Act, or email greening upmyact at gmail dot com. We look at all of those pretty frequently.

so yeah, send us your ideas because we have some spots. Some slots we can slot you in. Cool. All right.

Kat (39:58)
And we'll see you in a couple weeks.

Tiffany (40:00)
Yay. Bye.