Kat (00:00.866)
Hi Tiffany. I'm I made sure to say that as you were taking a giant gulp of water. It's perfect. Yeah. It's a Thursday night. yes, well, welcome back everyone to Greening Up My Act. here's I'm just gonna go into it. You've got a beautiful garden, let's say. You got flowers for pollinators, maybe some plants you can eat, some some tomatoes. It's gorgeous. It's all native, it's all wonderful.

Tiffany (00:02.184)
I get, just like drink.

Yeah, just took a swig. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:26.254)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (00:30.72)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (00:31.254)
And then the deer.

Tiffany (00:34.306)
Yeah.

Kat (00:36.332)
It ends up they love plants too. They love tomatoes, they love cucumbers, they love native pollinator plants. So what's a girl to do?

Tiffany (00:38.69)
Yeah.

Tiffany (00:43.574)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (00:47.96)
Today we're going through how to keep the critters out of your flower bed. Welcome to greening up my Act

Kat (01:12.086)
Yes. This one's I'm trying to make this one short but sweet. I this is a fun one tonight.

Yeah, I think I think we'll enjoy this one. 'Cause I know you have experience with it. I don't have we don't have deer really in this part of Texas. in the city. Yeah. I do have I do have squirrels though, so I'm considering this. So we'll see. But they eat my figs.

Tiffany (01:22.904)
good. Yeah, my god, so much. what? and it's city.

Tiffany (01:34.742)
Do squirrels mess with your flowers?

right, you said that, Mm-hmm, okay.

Kat (01:39.904)
Yeah, and other plants. So we're gonna see. I'm gonna try this. But so we like to start off the episodes by saying who are we? And last time I kinda freestyled it, but would you like to say who are we?

Tiffany (01:51.403)
Yes. We are two current slash former marketing writers who look at green stuff happening, either systems or products or like options for us and think like we like to research. So we research it and we're like, is this good? Like, does this actually work? Is this actually eco-friendly? Is it not?

What is eco-friendly? We also asked that question. Yeah, and we kind of tried to do some research so everybody else who doesn't have time doesn't have to because...

Kat (02:22.473)
Right.

Kat (02:32.738)
Right. You just listen to us for forty five minutes to an hour once a week.

Tiffany (02:35.996)
Yeah, you learned some stuff, because we're learning stuff.

Kat (02:39.17)
We are learning stuff. This is basically for us and you you get to come along for the ride. So yeah. Yeah. Good explanation. so I had a few sources. They're kinda redundant, but I mean, read it. Duh. savvy gardening dot com. I found I found a site called The Deer Guys. Liquid Fence and then Farmers Farmer's Almanac. So

Tiffany (02:41.332)
Yeah, it's a selfish endeavor. huh.

Thanks.

Tiffany (02:58.689)
Okay.

Tiffany (03:02.427)
huh, I know about them. Okay.

Kat (03:09.794)
That's five, right? That's we are trying to keep it under. 'Cause we had that one season where we all had like thirty and it turned into like research papers and we're like, we're writing dissertations on recycling. But Okay. So what are we talking about this week? Okay. Deer spray, technically. DIY deer spray is the idea. But I'm just gonna read what I wrote 'cause I'm a writer and I I like that. So i if you have ever tried to grow something in your front yard, backyard

Tiffany (03:12.802)
Yeah.

Tiffany (03:20.853)
Yes.

Tiffany (03:28.514)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (03:35.199)
Yeah.

Kat (03:40.641)
You probably have some kind of critter try to eat it. I mean, like so in the city, like I said, we have squirrels, rats, and bugs, not to mention my own pets. So Ada definitely steals dying plants, as we talked last week. She took that whole avocado tree out of a pot, but she sometimes still t steals tomatoes too. Emmet used to steal tomatoes. But if you live a little further out, you're probably gonna get deer. So I know there are definitely deer

Tiffany (03:43.617)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (03:56.854)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (04:06.625)
Yes.

Kat (04:10.186)
in in the outer parts of Austin. Albuquerque had for sure. Elk too. Rabbits also. Yeah, elk. Yeah, my and Chama elk used to lay in my yard at night. Or in the yard next door. And my dog would be like Yeah. My dog would be like, We have to go outside now. And I'd be like Elk, they're just they're just hanging out. Yeah. So deer love a free garden buffet. Like as do rabbits.

Tiffany (04:15.602)
Mm-hmm. elk. Elk in your yard?

Tiffany (04:23.738)
wow. That was in the mountains though, right?

Tiffany (04:29.158)
my god.

That's awesome.

Tiffany (04:37.714)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Kat (04:40.63)
So why forage in the woods when you can just stroll up to a human's well tinted garden and chomp away?

Tiffany (04:45.397)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (04:47.374)
There are a couple options people say. You can try putting wire cages or nets over your plants, but some critters will eat around or through them. also you can't see your beautiful flowers that way, it makes them a lot harder to pluck and pick. It's almost impossible to perfectly cage something that you're growing. you can try scaring them off with scarecrows, which don't really work for the record. Motion activated no.

Tiffany (04:52.225)
Yeah.

Tiffany (04:56.128)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (05:05.207)
Yeah.

Tiffany (05:12.558)
they don't?

Kat (05:15.288)
Please. Have you ever seen those owls that are meant to scare pigeons and they just have pigeon shit all over

Kat (05:23.468)
I mean they might work some, but the the thing is unless they move and do stuff, yeah, the animals know it's it's like, that's a piece of furniture. It's not gonna hurt it's not gonna hurt me. So also motion activated lights or noises are a possibility, but those don't always have the effect and you might annoy your neighbors. guardian dogs are c a possibility.

Tiffany (05:26.122)
Eventually. Yeah.

Right. That's interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (05:42.764)
Yeah.

Tiffany (05:47.656)
We have talked about them, yeah, with the Pumas. And I think it was like Chile or Argentina. Mm-hmm.

Kat (05:51.351)
Yeah. Yeah, that's right. Yes. Well Archie is technically a guardian dog. dogs are naturally stinky and they will bark at the deer and scare them away, but then you have to have an outside dog and again possibly annoy your neighbors. So Enter Deer Spray. So Dun dun dun I know it is kind of that kind of thing. So what is deer spray?

Tiffany (05:57.14)
Right, yeah.

Tiffany (06:01.124)
huh.

Tiffany (06:05.152)
Right.

Yes, that's true.

Tiffany (06:13.804)
I almost said dun dun dun, but that's not really the right noise.

Kat (06:21.142)
It's basically stink you spray around your garden to repel deer and rabbits. That's it. And well yes, as we will find. It starts off strong, but lessens over time, which means eventually you won't have to smell it, but the deer and rabbits still will. Hopefully even after it rains, they have much more sensitive sense of smell than we do.

Tiffany (06:26.28)
and humans.

Tiffany (06:42.1)
Okay. I didn't realize it could potentially stick around after rain.

Kat (06:46.23)
Well that's we'll get into that. It's usually a rotten egg smell. It's usually based on rotten eggs. garlic, sometimes cayenne peppers or other capsaicin, herbs and oils that deer don't like is the idea. Some commercial formulas will actually use predator urine. So it's a strong deterrent for deer without having to hire an actual bobcat or mountain lion to hang out in your front yard.

Tiffany (06:48.096)
Okay.

Tiffany (06:53.9)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (07:02.38)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (07:08.13)
Hmm.

Kat (07:15.724)
So or you just have your dog pee on your garden, I guess. But animals are very sensitive to those smells and they will if they smell a predator, they will typically be like, let's get the

Tiffany (07:15.776)
Right.

Tiffany (07:28.918)
Yeah.

Kat (07:30.787)
Okay, because most of these ingredients are natural, and I mean that in like not the marketing green hooey term, but like they're actual derived from things that occur in nature in their whole form, right? Like not bamboo rayon, but or like it's an egg. It's a rotten egg. Like that is a naturally occurring phenomenon that doesn't have to be chemically treated. They're not harmful to critters. It's just stinky. They do

Tiffany (07:41.182)
Mm-hmm

Tiffany (07:45.544)
Right.

Tiffany (07:52.918)
Yeah.

Tiffany (07:57.161)
Right. Yeah.

Kat (07:59.223)
Just deter them, they don't hurt them, they don't kill them. It also won't hurt your plants, your dogs, or your children. So it's not a pesticide, it's a deterrent, which is a very interesting concept.

Tiffany (08:08.161)
Right.

Yeah. Right.

Yeah, that is interesting.

Kat (08:17.644)
Yeah. yeah, you're not poisoning the deer or the rats or the rabbits. You're just getting them to go somewhere else.

Tiffany (08:22.622)
Right. Yep. Yeah. Okay.

Kat (08:27.276)
So I looked into commercial tear spray just to get kind of an idea. So the most common recommendation, thank you, Reddit, was liquid fins. Camel case, one word, you know, capital L, capital F, liquid fins. So it comes in a ready-to-use spray, or you can get concentrate for larger amounts, or granules, which sounded interesting. But most people most people like the spray. Yeah, I wasn't sure about the granules. Unlike other types of deterrents.

Tiffany (08:30.505)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (08:36.693)
Okay.

Tiffany (08:41.238)
Yep.

Tiffany (08:50.604)
Kat (08:57.484)
The deer doesn't have to eat the plant to be deterred, right? It just smells the stuff and goes away. It doesn't munch on it and go, Well, this tastes bad. It smells it. So it also trains the animal like behavioralism, right? It smells bad there, don't let's not go there, is the idea. So apparently the rotten egg and garlic smell mimics the scent of predators, so it scares the animals off. Yes. Yeah. Well,

Tiffany (09:06.283)
Right.

Tiffany (09:15.915)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (09:22.004)
that's interesting. I didn't know that. I thought maybe they just didn't like it.

Kat (09:27.626)
Yeah, I don't really know the science behind like does predator urine smell like rotten eggs and garlic? But I think, you know, if somebody sprinkled a nice dish with sulfur, I probably wouldn't want to eat it either. So yeah. So LiquidFince also sells repellents for moles, snakes, and pets, dogs and cats.

Tiffany (09:40.746)
Right. Yeah.

Tiffany (09:49.686)
Hmm, interesting.

Kat (09:51.563)
Yeah, which I was like, Okay, well I'll have bitter apple spray also. I might have to try this on Ada next time there's an avocado tree that I plant and just be like ps ps but anyway. Yeah.

Tiffany (09:59.363)
Yeah. Yeah, really. I wonder if that works, because I know somebody whose dog digs like crazy in their yard. Yeah. I don't know. Huh. Uh-huh.

Kat (10:06.624)
Okay, yeah, maybe. I don't know about digging. Yeah. I wonder. They could try the liquid fence. I I looked up pricing. so a small bottle of the stuff, about thirty two ounces, is ten dollars at like Home Depot or Walmart. or you could go all in thirty dollars for a five pound batch of the granules. super easy to use. You just spray it, right? On

Tiffany (10:20.438)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (10:28.161)
Okay.

Tiffany (10:33.132)
Yeah.

Kat (10:33.91)
the roots and leaves of the plants or around your garden bed. Although everyone I read it was like wear gloves. Don't wear rubber gloves, 'cause the rubber rubber will absorb the scent. You want to wear like nitrile, you know, medical grade gloves.

Tiffany (10:36.148)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (10:50.454)
Funny enough, I never wear gloves when I use it, ever.

Kat (10:52.805)
this might be your issue. Does the stink stay? the stink just stays around. You just have the stink on your hands.

Tiffany (10:55.906)
What's supposed to happen? No. Oh no. See, I don't want to jump ahead too much. Okay, cause like, I have one. looked, I just looked it up. I have a commercial one and it's from I Must Garden. That's the brand. I Must Garden, Deer Repellent. It does work really well and it's definitely less stinky. It smells. It's not a good smell.

Kat (11:05.646)
I'm gonna go for

Kat (11:14.931)
Nelsley. Okay.

Tiffany (11:25.196)
but it's less stinky than the DIY one I tried when I was younger with my mom.

Kat (11:30.776)
So okay. It might have like predator urine in it or more. Other other things.

Tiffany (11:36.61)
Maybe, or it's just less concentrated or something. I don't know. But it's not as, yeah, I'm telling you. That DIY one. I don't know if you're gonna talk about it, but okay, we'll get there when we get there.

Kat (11:42.968)
Potent. Yeah.

Okay.

Okay. So they say that with with this commercial ones, the smell for you as a human will last about thirty minutes until it until it dries. And then you probably won't smell it anymore. But deer and rabbits will still smell it. You just won't.

Tiffany (12:01.248)
Yeah, that I believe.

Okay, sometimes I actually have the garage door open and my entire garage smells like it and I'm like, damn it! But, it's fine.

Kat (12:10.136)
yeah, I okay. But yeah, they do say it has a pretty high success rate. So it works. Okay.

Tiffany (12:15.926)
yeah, it works super well. And actually what I usually do is I spray it on early in the season and then I kind of sometimes remember to spray it again, but I don't. I do wonder if it kind of trains them. Yeah. Hmm. That's nice. Good. You don't want to get complacent though. So I'm like, yeah.

Kat (12:28.216)
But they don't come back. 'Cause they learn early. Yeah, I think that's the idea. So

That's a thing, yeah. Well, so my next thing was well what if you wanna do it yourself?

Tiffany (12:42.908)
Mmm. Yeah.

Kat (12:44.686)
So now we're talking, right? But I think this is where I programmed in a break. I told you this one's gonna be short and sweet. DIY deer spray after the break.

Tiffany (12:51.262)
Yeah. Love it.

Tiffany (13:09.986)
Sweet.

Kat (13:10.722)
Welcome back. Okay, so I looked up DIY Deer Spray and the Deer Guys had some pretty compelling recipes, I thought. As did the Farmer's Almanac. But I took these straight from the Deer Guys. They also sell their own spray, so it's another option. This this appears to be maybe we should go into deer spray making. I don't know. It sounds like a I'm glad somebody else is doing it though, from what I can tell. So their recipe for a rotten egg and garlic spray.

Tiffany (13:16.254)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (13:22.018)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (13:35.616)
Yeah.

Kat (13:40.898)
Two eggs, four cloves of garlic, one tablespoon dish soap, and a quart of water. Blend, let it sit overnight, strain, and then spray on plant leaves and around the base. That's it.

Tiffany (13:56.963)
Yeah, that sounds very similar to what we did when I was younger. It was a- Okay, go ahead.

Kat (13:58.839)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (14:03.84)
Yep, well I said pr the pros, this is cheap and you probably already have the ingredients in your house. The cons. You're stinking up your kitchen. You have to wait at least overnight to use it, probably longer. If you don't already have a spray bottle or applicator, you're at the mercy of gravity and whatever pore spout you have at hand, and I'm also not sure how often you have to reapply. So what what what did you not love about DIY Deer Spray?

Tiffany (14:08.706)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (14:16.651)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (14:22.592)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Tiffany (14:32.162)
It smelled so bad that I almost vomited. Like I actually couldn't be near it. And it's absolutely not something I would ever recommend. Unless you're wearing like a serious mask that allows you to not smell things. But even then, I'm like...

Kat (14:36.734)
Mm. Yes.

Kat (14:43.701)
Yeah.

Kat (14:48.611)
Okay.

Kat (14:54.925)
Yeah.

Tiffany (15:00.78)
but you can buy the stuff. It's got like a cool mint scent to it. You can still smell it underneath it, but they do mix in some kind of minty thing on mine, which sort of masks it a little bit, but it was one of the worst things I've ever smelled.

Kat (15:02.315)
Yeah.

Kat (15:05.973)
Yeah.

Kat (15:11.106)
Yeah.

Kat (15:17.494)
I I believe you. I was like, why would you ever, ever make rotten eggs part of your day? Ever. Like this is we've been teasing each other about smelling like rotten eggs since kindergarten. Why around around your house? Like not only will you repel the deer, you will repel the neighbors, you will repel the solicitors, you'll repel your friends who want to come over for dinner. Yes.

Tiffany (15:24.682)
Yeah, like purposely, yeah.

Tiffany (15:31.082)
Yeah, and then spray it aerosolized into the air.

Tiffany (15:39.826)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a while, so I don't remember if when that dried, if the smell went away, but I don't think I don't know. I don't know. It was a horrid experience.

Kat (15:53.229)
I Yeah, I believe it. Well so they okay, so they had some other some other options. like if you just can't get to the store and you've gotta get rid of those deer tonight, okay. Cayenne pepper and vinegar spray. So this works because it irritates the deer's sense of taste and smell rather than imitating the smell of a predator, right? So it's less stinky, but it just irrit annoys them. So capsaicin.

Tiffany (15:58.531)
huh. Okay.

Tiffany (16:05.309)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Tiffany (16:13.898)
Okay.

Tiffany (16:21.142)
We talked about this before. I don't remember why. Maybe. Yeah.

Kat (16:23.448)
Probably. I talk about ants. 'Cause when I get ants I will just put cinnamon They don't like cinnamon.

Tiffany (16:31.85)
I think I tried something like this and I killed my plants because I sprayed vinegar, straight vinegar on them and they're like, eww, that hurt me. Yeah, yeah. Maybe. Does it just say vinegar or is it like with water?

Kat (16:37.247)
Yeah, you have to be careful about that.

Yeah. My So it's two tablespoons of cayenne pepper, one tablespoon of white vinegar, one tablespoon of dish soap, and a quart of water. And then you shake it. Yeah. So yeah. They're using dish soap because it will adhere to the leaves more. But yeah. Yeah, don't stray sprait vinegar on your plants. Don't recommend

Tiffany (16:55.348)
Okay, I think I just did vinegar, so that's why. Okay.

Tiffany (17:02.806)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, my plants were so crispy. They're like...

Tiffany (17:12.226)
But that might work, actually, if it's diluted.

Kat (17:13.91)
Yeah. My neighbor next door just sprinkles cayenne pepper around his yard to get rid of the squirrels. So but that gets expensive. But he just buys like the thirty two ounce cayenne pepper and just sprinkles it around. So I mean the pros to that are obviously it's super easy, it doesn't stink, and you probably again have the ingredients in your home. The cons. You have to reapply it every three to four days after it rains or after you water your garden. So you have to keep it up. So that's

Tiffany (17:18.569)
Okay.

interesting. That's true. huh. Interesting, okay.

Tiffany (17:32.969)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (17:40.355)
Right. And I wonder if that messes with like snails. Snails probably don't love cayenne pepper. Yeah. Do they love garlic? I don't know. Okay. Probably, yeah, probably not.

Kat (17:45.192)
I they don't love capsaicin or vinegar either. Yeah. So Yeah.

Kat (17:56.247)
I don't think they care about it as much. Yeah, I wonder.

Kat (18:01.752)
I didn't look into that. the other idea they have was peppermint oil spray, because peppermint oil some same idea, it overwhelms the deer sense of smell and masks attractive plant smells.

Tiffany (18:06.092)
Hmm.

Tiffany (18:10.739)
Okay, interesting.

Kat (18:12.846)
It doesn't always work as well as the stinky stuff, but they say ten to fifteen drops of peppermint oil, a tablespoon of dish soap, and a quarter water. Shake it up, spray it around the garden perimeter and on low risk plants. So yeah.

Tiffany (18:15.488)
Okay.

Tiffany (18:21.771)
Okay.

Tiffany (18:25.78)
Interesting. Okay, yeah, I feel like this is sort of could be a trial and error situation. Because I do also feel like some deer are more aggressive than other deer populations. The ones... Yeah, right. Yeah, like I feel like the ones around my house aren't too bad. But the ones around my brother-in-law's house, which is only like 20 minutes away, are like deer from hell. They literally will rip out plants, just rip them out.

Kat (18:32.184)
Yeah.

Kat (18:35.66)
Yes. Yes. And if they're very hungry and very used to humans is the other thing.

Kat (18:51.351)
Yeah.

Yeah, they're not just munching, they're destroying. Yeah. They're variant, they're they're more like cows. They're just like we own this. Yeah. So I said the pros of the peppermint sprays it smells nice, but the cons, again, it isn't as strong of a deterrent. It it won't really deter the deer if they really want your garden and it'll wash away the second use your sprinklers or if it rains. So you have to reapply it every time. So the farmer's almond says you should reapply the stenkel stuff.

Tiffany (18:55.604)
Yeah, like what the hell is wrong with these deer? Yeah.

Tiffany (19:08.737)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (19:16.426)
Okay. Right.

Kat (19:23.978)
every three to four weeks, which isn't that bad. But they also they also recommended switching up your methods so the deer don't get used to it. So that's yeah. So if it doesn't work, try something else and then you know. Now there is also you can plant deer repellent plants. No guarantees. But deer don't like smelly herbs like lavender, mint, thyme, sage or rosemary.

Tiffany (19:26.813)
that's not bad.

Tiffany (19:31.426)
that's interesting. Here I go with Kyan.

Tiffany (19:43.051)
Right.

Tiffany (19:51.894)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (19:53.171)
they don't like fuzzy or prickly things like lambsear, butterfly bush, globe thistle, or barbary. okay. Bulbs daffodils daffodil bulbs are actually toxic to deer. So watch out for that one. But they also don't like alliums like garlic or onion. And then ornamental grasses they won't eat generally either. But bunnies will, yes. So spray that with cayenne pepper. But yeah.

Tiffany (19:58.443)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (20:05.332)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (20:09.727)
Yes, yes.

Tiffany (20:14.188)
Bunnies will, turns out. Yeah.

Okay, so is the cayenne for the bunnies? or also bunnies? Because, okay, okay, okay. Because I should try that. Although, I will say, I think I have complaint about this. I planted $70 worth of grasses in my front bed. The bunnies nibbled it to hell and back last year, and now they're leaving it alone. So like, do I just have no bunnies anymore? But it's actually growing, and I'm so nervous. I'm gonna walk out there one night and be like,

Kat (20:23.2)
Yeah, works for bunnies and squirrels. Yeah.

Kat (20:34.998)
Yes. Yes.

Kat (20:46.36)
I'll just sprinkle some cayenne on it, yeah. Yeah. Or cinnamon, yeah. Ugh, no, okay, yeah, that's see that's no fun. I don't love nets around especially ornamental plant you know. Yes. Yeah. And then the rabbit'll just chew a hole through that. That's what rabbits do. Yeah. so yeah, that okay, so that's something as a former domestic rabbit foster mother.

Tiffany (20:47.778)
No, I should. I will, actually. That's a really good idea. So I was like, do I need to get like nets for this shit? But.

No, they're ugly. And expensive. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah, totally. Or dig under. Yeah.

Tiffany (21:11.327)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (21:13.322)
The reason rabbits chew through phone cords or anything vine like is because they have to clear a path to escape. And it is just in their nature to chew through vines, anything that they could get snagged on. That is why you have to hide your cords when you have bunnies. Yeah, so yes. Chik chik chik chik chick. So yes. it's terrifying when the first time they chew through a cord though.

Tiffany (21:29.139)
Whoa.

That is so interesting. It's like Peter Rabbit.

That is so cute. my God.

Kat (21:42.679)
'cause they can't electrocute themselves, so anyway. So our next question I didn't really say anything about like what claims does this make. I mean it the eco friendly claims are it's not gonna kill the deer. It's not gonna kill your plants. It's not gonna kill insects. It's not, you know.

Tiffany (21:42.868)
Yeah. Okay. That's fair. So interesting.

Tiffany (21:55.955)
Right. And yeah, which is great. And it's enabling you to grow food for insects and pollinators and birds and all that. So.

Kat (22:05.912)
Yes. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Yeah, not just the deer in your neighborhood. Which by the way, we can talk about invasive species. Deer are often uncontrolled populations, and I know they're cute. In parts of New Mexico, they will just wander up to you and eat potato chips out of your hands. So like but they carry f fleas and ticks and they can be very destructive to ecosystems when left unchecked. So

Tiffany (22:17.798)
yeah.

Tiffany (22:24.413)
my god.

Tiffany (22:29.925)
yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (22:35.286)
I don't encourage feeding deer and bunnies.

Tiffany (22:37.73)
No, some people have like cell blocks. I'm like, what are you doing? What are you doing? Yeah, no, this is like in the suburbs. I'm like, you, hi. Like yes, they're cute. However.

Kat (22:40.669)
yeah. No. Are you if are you gonna hunt the deer? That's like

Yeah. Yeah, it's people don't get it. Yeah, they are cute. And there should be some deer. I fully believe that deer should be free to lift. But the thing is that we have killed off all of their natural predators and so they overgrow. And then we feed them more. So that's not a natural state of things. So

Tiffany (22:58.069)
Right.

Tiffany (23:03.016)
No. And actually, did I tell you about that horrible story about the deer getting hit by the car in my front yard?

Kat (23:09.408)
you did, but tell the listeners.

Tiffany (23:13.332)
I probably even said it years ago. It's been a while. Yeah, this girl, and I felt so bad for her. She was pretty young. She got hit, or sorry, wow. She hit a deer.

Kat (23:24.012)
Hit by a dare. That was a monstrous deer. Yeah.

Tiffany (23:28.002)
She hit a deer with her car and then she pulled into our driveway and the deer was like struggling and kind of like just, it was in bad shape. And it was in our fricking front yard and we're sitting there like, God. And went out to talk to the girl and she was crying. She called her mom. Like, it just felt so bad. And she tried to call around to a bunch of animal rescue places and all of them were like, you cannot save a deer in Maryland.

Kat (23:47.089)
my god.

Tiffany (23:57.667)
You can't do it because we don't need them. We don't want to save them. Yeah. And she was so upset. And then the cop, before she found out she couldn't save it, a cop showed up because she had called and the cop was like, I can shoot it. And she's like, what do you mean you can shoot it? And so she refused. She refused to let them shoot it. And the poor thing just suffered.

Kat (23:58.861)
No. Yes. They're actually a problem.

Kat (24:17.322)
Why? Yeah. Not like Bambi's mother?

Kat (24:26.638)
Ugh.

Tiffany (24:26.69)
And then it died like 30 minutes later. And like, yes, she should have just let them shoot the deer. she, you know, lesson learned, I hope. But, you know, then she found out, you actually can't save a deer. That's yeah. So I was like. It was just so it was so crazy. It was horrid. But I learned I learned a lot, too. I was like, oh, OK, now I know.

Kat (24:29.304)
Awful.

Kat (24:39.31)
You're not allowed to, yeah.

Kat (24:45.431)
Yeah.

I mean, yeah. Yeah.

Sometimes you need the Forest Service to tell you what's up.

Tiffany (24:56.008)
Yeah, they are nuisances for sure. But I was like, that would have been pretty wild to just have a cop shoot a deer in the head in my front yard. Yeah.

Kat (24:58.145)
Yeah. Dear or not.

Kat (25:02.56)
my god, you have to call your neighbors and be like, Don't worry It was a cop shooting, but it was shooting a dying animal. Yeah.

Tiffany (25:09.443)
god, yeah. Yeah. Crazy.

Kat (25:15.48)
Huh sh should we go to another tangent 'cause we're gonna end early tonight, I think. Okay. My other tangent is I tell this story. This is a shared story from a guy I dated in college and he had a friend. Carl, let's say.

Tiffany (25:18.676)
Absolutely.

Kat (25:30.04)
Carl was kind of a depressive type. He was like the sweetest person you'll ever meet in your life, but like super sensitive. An artsy. And he decided to go to clown school. So he went to clown school. And he was driving home one night and he hit a cat.

Tiffany (25:36.455)
huh.

Tiffany (25:43.714)
Okay.

Tiffany (25:48.994)
Kat (25:50.593)
And he the cat was suffering and he knew it, and he felt so bad. He's the most sensitive soul in the world, so he went in the back of his car and got a ha a shovel and hit the cat over the head and killed it. Well, unfortunately a neighbor was driving by with their children and saw this happen and called the police. And so Carl got kicked out of clown school for behavior on becoming a clown.

Tiffany (26:04.93)
Okay.

Tiffany (26:09.411)
my god.

Tiffany (26:17.757)
No.

Kat (26:22.252)
And he's like, he knows. I I think of this anytime somebody tries to do something to help. I'm like, you're gonna get kicked out of clown school for behavior on becoming a clown.

Anyway, I sold that story, but he yeah. Behavior on becoming a clown, my friend. But I also thought about this though, like, you know, at our current state right now, people get away with the most corrupt cynical bullshit. And you can get kicked out of clown school for putting a cat out of its misery. Anyway, behavior on becoming a clown.

Tiffany (26:36.797)
my god.

Tiffany (26:51.123)
Yeah, that's like...

Tiffany (26:58.338)
Ugh.

That is insane. I did not know that clown school was a thing.

Kat (27:04.46)
yeah, there's definitely yeah. I mean it it's not like an MBA, you know. I have a friend who joined the circus. She's she does silks. She was we were all like, she's gonna be a lawyer and she is in the circus. She's an acrobat or an aerialist. she loves it.

Tiffany (27:09.122)
You

Tiffany (27:14.088)
cool.

Tiffany (27:19.158)
That's awesome. Hopefully, does she like it? It seems like, well, it depends on the witch circus. Depends very much on which cervix. Okay.

Kat (27:26.712)
She's been in several, but yeah, no, she's she's in a performing arts troupe, you know. She's an aerial she's super talented. Yeah.

Tiffany (27:30.985)
Okay.

That's awesome. Yeah, I love that. Just give the middle finger too.

Kat (27:39.158)
Yeah, the corporate setup. I always think I'm gonna do that and I'm like I have no sellable talent.

Tiffany (27:40.766)
Yes. Yes.

Tiffany (27:46.53)
Whatever.

Kat (27:48.942)
I mean I mean yeah, I could do that, but I would starve to death. I mean yes. I can do my art.

It's fine. It's not it's not sellable. then that's the other thing. Why does everything have to be sellable? You know? I wish I wish you know I didn't have to worry about my art being sellable.

Tiffany (27:57.602)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (28:01.354)
Well, that is true, yeah.

Tiffany (28:08.392)
Yeah, turning everything into an income stream is not satisfying on the soul all the time.

Kat (28:11.278)
Yeah.

Kat (28:16.512)
No, and so un inhumane.

Tiffany (28:20.374)
Yeah.

Kat (28:22.051)
But yeah.

Tiffany (28:23.006)
Yeah, that's how I when I started writing. I was like, I used to love this.

Kat (28:27.964)
that's why I don't write fiction for a living, right?

Tiffany (28:30.154)
Yeah, no, it's so true. feel like the people who can continue to crank out like good books, fiction books, but crank them out and they're good. Maybe they have ghost writers, but.

Kat (28:44.938)
Editors, baby editors. Edit all good books have an editor. There are some very talented writers, but real good books are made by their editors.

Tiffany (28:47.196)
Yeah, but it's like you can kind of

Tiffany (28:52.904)
Yes, no. Yeah, but I'm also thinking like you can tell when there's one of the two, the editor or the writer is inspired and like having fun with it and you can tell when they're not. And they like I'm just thinking of I read like the Thursday Murder Mystery Club. So it's called Thursday Murder Club. And that's a whole series and they're on like book five.

Kat (29:03.97)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (29:13.548)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (29:19.054)
and the guy wasn't even a writer, he was like an accountant or something and he started writing and he's, it's so good, they're so good. And he's right. And I'm like.

Kat (29:25.304)
Th yes. I love Dan Brown. I don't think he's like the most literary it's but the stories are good. It's easy to read. Great. Love it. I read my first Dan Brown book this year. Sean made me read it. And I like, and I felt actually so much better about my own writing.

Tiffany (29:35.55)
Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (29:44.569)
there you go.

Kat (29:45.826)
I'm like, it doesn't have to be Nabokov, you know.

Tiffany (29:49.131)
Yeah, this guy is actually a pretty decent writer. I will say he's actually pretty solid. Why can't I think of his name right now? they're really good books, but yeah, he clearly is still enjoying the story, but he's cranking them out. And I'm I'm so impressed by the fact that... There you go, yeah. Yeah, I think it was a movie, yes?

Kat (29:51.426)
Yes, yes.

Kat (29:55.544)
I've heard of him, yeah.

I'm gonna go.

Kat (30:10.252)
Richard Osman, yes. And they made a show out of it with the all the old people you love. Yeah, as a movie.

Tiffany (30:18.799)
Every old person. It was okay. It was pretty good. Yeah

Kat (30:20.672)
Yes. Ben yeah, it was fine. I watched it. they have okay. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, fun. Mysteries are fun. And they don't have to it doesn't have to be like world changing literature for it to be a good book. Yeah.

Tiffany (30:29.044)
Yes, they're my favorite. No, exactly. but yeah, he's, he's made a living out of it. And I'm just impressed that he manages to continue to make them good and interesting because it doesn't always happen. Maybe because it's his second career. He's like screw accounting. I don't know what he was, but yeah. He's like, this is so much better.

Kat (30:43.234)
Yeah. He likes it. Yeah, that's true.

Kat (30:50.446)
Fuck accounting. Yeah, right.

Tiffany (30:57.248)
Yeah. Anyway.

Kat (30:57.792)
Okay. Well so now that we're done with our Patreon episode, in the middle of our this is a taste of what we talk about in our Patreon episode. But okay, so our next question that we ask is, is this something a normal person can do or afford? Okay, so yeah. Yes. I just did the math for funsies. Okay, so make your own to for DIY deer spray, alright? I know eggs have been kind of expensive lately, but if your eggs are like

Tiffany (31:01.442)
Yes.

Tiffany (31:18.195)
huh. Mm-hmm.

Kat (31:25.194)
three fifty nine a dozen, which is pretty high right now for regular eggs. Okay. Thirty cents an egg, let's say. Single head of garlic is about a buck, you get ten cloves per head, so let's say that's ten cents a clove. Say your dish soap is two ninety nine for eighteen ounces, so ten cents a tablespoon and water. Okay. Water is not free, but it the most it'll probably cost you is two cents from the tap. So I'm just gonna throw it we don't count that one.

Tiffany (31:38.081)
Right.

Tiffany (31:51.618)
Okay, we don't need to add that in.

Kat (31:54.765)
So two times thirty cents plus four times ten cents plus ten cents is a buck ten.

Tiffany (32:01.089)
Whoa.

Kat (32:01.998)
For a little more than for for a quart for a little more than thirty two ounces of deer spray. All right. That's nine dollars and ninety cents less than you pay for the pro liquid fence. So yeah, if you've got the time to make your own deer spray and you wanna save nine dollars, yeah, go for it.

Tiffany (32:06.496)
Yeah, and the worst experience of your life.

Tiffany (32:14.647)
Alright, that is cheap for sure.

Tiffany (32:22.146)
I wonder how long it lasts if it's already rotten. you put it? Cause mine's been in my garage for like a year and it's fine.

Kat (32:32.204)
Yeah, I think I think it's fine. Especially the the commercial stuff, yeah. Yeah. I'll bet you it's even worse than it's ever been. It might get moldy, would be my concern.

Tiffany (32:36.392)
No, that's fine. I was just wondering about the DIY stuff like the

Tiffany (32:42.97)
yeah, or it might get extra effective.

Kat (32:45.534)
Yeah. It might repel everyone. Yeah. I you might look into that. It might turn into like mustard gas or something. Like it's like ammonia all of a sudden, right? You did a chemical experiment. Did you ever hear about that Boy Scout who accidentally like made a nuclear weapon in his backyard? Okay, look that one up. Anyway, speaking of fun stories, it's true. A Boy Scout actually made like plutonium or your your uranium. Yes.

Tiffany (32:48.232)
Everything. The neighborhood.

Yeah

Tiffany (33:03.548)
No. OK. That's.

I think I did hear about this in his shed, right? Yes, I did hear about this.

Kat (33:15.65)
And he like called the FBI and he was like,

Tiffany (33:18.535)
Yes, yes. Genius. Really smart.

Kat (33:20.344)
He was like thirteen. Actually he was not that smart. They said he was like a below average I mean he was he was that's how science is though. It's not about smarts, it's about doing stupid shit until something works. Yes. It's more about like, well, I don't know, how does it work? Let's try it. Mustard gas, you know, like whoop. But that's how we get new things. So anyway. Anyway. So go for it if you've got the time and inclination to make your own deer spray.

Tiffany (33:25.315)
really?

Tiffany (33:32.898)
Trying stuff. Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally. That's awesome.

Kat (33:50.145)
You might have to spray it more often. So, and it's definitely gonna stink up your kitchen, but it's cheap, it's easy. If you need it tonight, go make your deer spray. But like if you Yeah. If you do have a serious deer problem, try the commercial stuff. Especially the ones that have predator urinum in, they don't stink as much. Or you could the deer guys do home visits. So they will come take care of your deer problem for you. So I don't think so. I didn't even notice where they're from. They're probably

Tiffany (33:52.553)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (33:56.168)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Or try the vinegar one.

Tiffany (34:04.503)
Yeah.

Tiffany (34:13.79)
there you go. Are they nationwide? Okay. Watch them just come and spray their shit. That's probably what they do.

Kat (34:22.05)
They're yeah, they're pest control.

Tiffany (34:24.0)
That's so interesting. If you're really struggling.

Kat (34:25.622)
Yeah, for the woman who has everything.

I I could see it. If you have like a an estate home somewhere and the deer are you know, like it's some of the some other really fancy resorts in some places, they have a hawk. They have a trained hawk that they will just have fly around the pool every day to scare off the pigeons. If you're ever at like a fancy resort like Mexico or Miami or something, they will have these hawks to scare off pigeons. Yeah. So, you know. Get a deer guy. Hm?

Tiffany (34:34.206)
Right. Yeah, if you don't have time.

oooo

Tiffany (34:48.511)
Interesting.

Tiffany (34:54.614)
That's so cool. What's wrong with pigeons? Pigeons are cool. No, I get it.

Kat (34:59.714)
They poop on the umbrellas at the pool. No, pigeons are great. We should do an episode on pigeons sometime. They are fascinating.

Tiffany (35:04.446)
We should. Yeah, like literally Charlie, we just got back from Peru. I don't think I mentioned this on the podcast, but we brought our five year old and she pointed out every single pigeon that we saw the entire time. And I was like, it's just so funny. It's just like a different pigeon. It's like so exciting to see a pigeon. And in my head, I'm like, it's a dumb pigeon, but they're not dumb. Actually, they're pretty cool.

Kat (35:19.031)
I love it.

Kat (35:31.144)
No, there and the reason we domesticated them for centuries and then didn't need them anymore and just let them go. So yes. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (35:41.237)
Is that what happened?

Tiffany (35:45.728)
I didn't know that.

So they're like, we're abandoned.

Kat (35:50.766)
They're like fear all cats, kinda. Yeah. I know. People hate them and I'm like, this isn't your fault, dude.

Tiffany (35:53.41)
Bye!

Tiffany (35:57.251)
That is so fascinating. That would be a cool episode. But one day.

Kat (36:00.001)
Yeah. Yeah. Also, my best friend Jen, she her nickname is Pigeon, so we ha we have a thing for pigeons. But they're great birds. They are.

Tiffany (36:07.266)
Aw, very cute. Yeah, yeah.

Kat (36:13.56)
Anyway, so we do a granola rating every week. it's based on how crunchy your granola is from one to five, one being soggy, five being break your tooth off, and that is obviously what you want. So I gave homemade deer spray a four. Just 'cause you have to keep up with it and it stenkles. But it is a green way to deter deer without getting a shotgun, so I would say it's affordable too. I but for ease of use.

Tiffany (36:14.174)
Alright. Yes.

Tiffany (36:27.722)
Nice. Okay.

Tiffany (36:31.903)
Yeah, indeed.

Mm-hmm. Witch.

Kat (36:42.698)
And still being fine green wise, the commercial spray is fine. It's a little more expensive, but it works. And like you were saying, like you you I didn't go into what producing deer spray does to the environment commercially, but it's probably a four or five.

Tiffany (36:47.36)
Right.

Tiffany (36:57.602)
Right, yeah, yeah.

Right.

Kat (37:03.714)
Yeah, anyway. So there you go. That's deer spray.

Tiffany (37:04.916)
Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say if you do take your shotgun to a deer, that would also be fine. Depending where you live.

Kat (37:10.432)
You can. I you know don't tell our vegan friends, but yes, I your community will probably encourage it. Or just, you know, release some coyotes. That's fine.

Tiffany (37:18.664)
Yeah. Or that. Or that. Totally. Sweet. Yes. I'm going to be talking about mulch and the different kinds of mulch and why it's good. Why it helps. Yeah. yeah. Everybody does. Totally. Everybody does. It's like a big component of permaculture is like.

Kat (37:25.282)
So next week we're supposed to talk about mulch.

Kat (37:36.438)
I love it. I always forget about mulch. Yeah.

Tiffany (37:47.602)
the more mulch the better. Not like a tree with like a mulch mound that's insane. That's not what I'm talking about.

Kat (37:55.488)
Yeah. But you sh you should do it every every spring when you plant, you should mulch.

Tiffany (38:00.458)
Yeah, like ground cover. Make sure that stuff isn't drying out. That's really what you want. yeah. Yes, exactly. Puts. All right, cool. What should we ask the kind folks to do?

Kat (38:02.252)
Yeah. Yeah. It's really great. And it's protective in the winter too. So insulation.

Kat (38:18.57)
yeah, recommend us twenty your friends. Or nobody's emailed us in forever. We had we had the young man who emailed us about cars and we were like, and then I haven't heard from anyone since he was really cool. He was just very excited about vehicles. but yeah. but yeah, we're at greening up my act at gmail dot com. And we'd love to hear from you. Hmm.

Tiffany (38:25.303)
yeah, that's true.

Tiffany (38:30.561)
right.

Tiffany (38:36.736)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (38:44.034)
Yeah, so send us. You know what I would love to hear? I would love to hear what people want to hear about. That would be awesome if you were like, oh, this is cool. This is a cool idea. Blah, blah, blah. And actually, I just remembered I had an idea that somebody else gave me that we should incorporate this season. Anyway, we'll do that in a minute. But yes, please tell us what you would love, what you like to hear about. It can be anything. OK. Thank you. Bye.

Kat (38:49.664)
Yes. Yeah.

Kat (39:03.072)
Okay.

Tell us. Yeah. We love you. Thank you. Okay. Bye.