Kat (00:01)
Hey Tiffany.

Tiffany (00:03)
Hey Kat

Kat (00:05)
I always start this off by saying like, how's it going? Even though we've just talked for like half an hour already about how it's going, but you could say for how is it going for the listeners?

Tiffany (00:09)
Yeah.

⁓ pretty bad.

⁓ yeah, I got laid off. ⁓ less than a week ago.

Kat (00:23)
Well, the day I started a new job. So yeah, we've yeah. And then

Tiffany (00:25)
On my daughter's birthday.

It was so crazy. It's like we were like, we have to switch places.

Kat (00:34)
Yes, we're not allowed to both be. I'm kind of wondering if we're like Batman, like Bruce Wayne and like you never see Tiffany and Kat employed fully at the same time.

or like one of us has to be going through something terrible. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:49)
It's so... Yeah.

Yeah. But it's sort of like with Joe and I, we've never both gotten really, really sick at the same exact time. So one of us has always been able to take care of Charlie. And now, once I say that, it's not going to happen. It's not going to be horrible yet. But it's kind of the same. It's like we've...

Kat (01:06)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (01:10)
This is our baby. We've been able

Kat (01:12)
Yeah.

Tiffany (01:12)
to take care of the pod- one of us has been able to take care of the podcast.

Kat (01:16)
Yes,

I can now focus on the baby. Yes, it's your turn. I got it potty trained. It's your turn. Yeah. You birthed it. I got a potty trained and now it's your turn to teach it to walk. don't think those go in opposite directions. Like I obviously have never raised a child myself. So, but yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:18)
Yes, yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, so it's pretty frickin' brutal and I have... I already felt for people who had been laid off, but it's different when you do it yourself.

Kat (01:47)
It is, and I will say like having been kind of unemployed or underemployed for the past like three years ish kind of, well, year and a half, I would say most recently. ⁓ You don't realize how much just having a job affects your willingness to like function. Like I just the first day of starting this new job, was like, ⁓ all of that.

Tiffany (02:11)
Mmm, mm-hmm.

Kat (02:16)
Depression I had is kind of better, you know? Yeah. So, I mean, yeah, I think it's the same as, you know, losing a parent. You're like, yeah, that's an inevitability and you, there's platitudes and you can, have like a general understanding, but until you're going through it, you just, you don't know. Yeah.

Tiffany (02:18)
Wow, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yes. Yep.

You don't understand the absolute sheer panic of like, ⁓ fuck.

Kat (02:43)
Yeah. And especially

when everyone's like, ⁓ the job market's just bad. It's like, yeah, I know. But that doesn't change how I feel right now. I can know that and still be.

you know, feeling things like it's my fault. It's my even if you know it's not, you know, but yeah, it's.

Tiffany (02:59)
Yes.

Yeah, and you go over and over in your head, like, what did I do wrong? What did I do wrong?

Kat (03:05)
Yep. And yeah,

where, what am I missing? Yeah.

Tiffany (03:10)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it's like my brain is trying to make logical sense of something that just doesn't make logical sense. Yeah

Kat (03:14)
completely illogical. it's

you're facing Cthulhu, right? The ancient, unfathomable, and you will go mad if you try to. So.

Tiffany (03:20)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah, I said that to myself. Not that exactly, but I something really similar to myself. was like, it's never going to make sense. And that's, I'm just going to have to deal with that. I'm going to have to learn to live with it.

Kat (03:28)
No.

Yeah.

Yep. Well, I'm sorry.

Tiffany (03:41)
Yeah, but I am planning a pivot. mean, the good thing is Joe has been like crazy supportive and everyone I've talked to, even my financial advisor is like very excited for me because I have a plan and I'm terrified and this is not how I had planned it out, but ⁓

Kat (04:07)
I the best, I was gonna say best laid plans, but the best things that happen in the world are accidents most of the time.

Tiffany (04:13)
Yeah. Yeah, it'd be a good story at least. Later.

Kat (04:17)
Yeah.

I'm excited for you too.

Tiffany (04:22)
Yeah, thank you.

Kat (04:23)
Yeah. ⁓ I will also say as we are recording this, ⁓ Aida just opened the door. Hi, Aida. ⁓ she wanted to say something, but, the U S is bombing Iran kind of Willy nilly, ⁓ which has been wild. And we had a shooting in Austin at

Tiffany (04:45)
Yeah,

I was gonna ask you about that.

Kat (04:47)
Yeah, so it like the world is in a very weird headspace right now for a lot of reasons and so are we and ⁓ I want to do it acknowledge that This probably should have been a patreon episode, but I think we can share that with our listeners. This will come out this weekend. ⁓ however, you're handling whatever you're handling Because I know it's not just us personally so

Tiffany (04:52)
Mm-hmm.

Yes, it really is not.

Kat (05:14)
Yeah. ⁓

Tiffany (05:17)
It is a crazy time to be alive.

Kat (05:19)
It is, and to be discussing fashion.

Tiffany (05:23)
of all things.

Kat (05:24)
I know,

but okay, maybe that's a good segue. So the topic for tonight is Hope for Flowers. And when you first said that to me, I hadn't heard of the brand. There's a book called Hope for the Flowers that came out in 1972. And I haven't ever read it, but I tangentially knew the writer through a guy I knew in Montclair, New Jersey, because she is from Montclair, New Jersey. And so when you first said that, I was like, yeah, I'd to read Hope for the Flowers. And because it is about

Tiffany (05:32)
Mm-hmm.

Mmm.

⁓ okay.

Kat (05:54)
know, environmentalism and all kinds of other things. ⁓ But this is not what that is about. So and I didn't I couldn't find anything if the Tracy Reese who founded Hope for Flowers got the name.

Tiffany (06:07)
Yeah, I was just wondering.

Kat (06:09)
Cause it seems like, but hope for the flowers and hope for flowers, I guess are different enough. But I was like, did she read the book in the seventies maybe? And yeah. But so I guess for our intro tonight, I will say we have talked a lot about fast fashion, which can be defined as, I mean, it's, it's the travesty of since the two early two thousands really quickly produced, quickly bought.

Tiffany (06:15)
Yeah. Yeah, it could be like a nod.

Kat (06:39)
quickly attained and quickly disposed of clothing. Like, you know, I didn't put any, we've, we've talked about those stats before, you know, 92 million billion tons of, I think I that set later in the episode here, but just get of clothing, just our textiles just get dumped. And it's, you know, this, I need a new shirt for everything. I need a new shirt. People order what five items a week or something, five new items a week. And then you probably.

Tiffany (07:07)
Yeah, and that's the

average. So some people it were more.

Kat (07:09)
wear it once and throw it away. Yeah.

And thrift stores are overwhelmed because there's so much junk and it's not high quality. ⁓ and it's mostly plastic clothing. So that's fast fashion. And tonight we're going to talk about the concept of slow fashion, ⁓ which is what Hope for the Flowers is centered on and how their sustainability claims maybe make sense or don't or

Tiffany (07:15)
Yeah.

Ugh,

I'm hoping. I'm hoping.

Kat (07:39)
What does it mean? Well,

I maybe we'll have some hope for flowers. Different hope than you might think though, but, welcome to greening up my act.

Tiffany (07:43)
Yay, okay. I hope so. Okay.

All right.

Kat (08:08)
All right, yeah. ⁓

I have very, very few sources tonight because I, okay, good. So we'll have some more chit chat maybe than normal, but again, hope for flowers, just their website and their sustainability page. An article from good on you about what is slow fashion. And then a company called Printful that was talking about how print on demand is more sustainable than traditional manufacturing. So we're gonna talk about that. ⁓ We usually,

Tiffany (08:15)
⁓ I do in my next one too, it's funny.

Yeah.

⁓ okay.

Kat (08:40)
a little segment on who are we. are Tiffany and Kat and we are two marketing writers or whatever we are now. ⁓ Yes you are.

Tiffany (08:49)
I'm like, am I? I would say

I am a content specialist still.

Kat (08:55)
Yes.

Well, we have foundations in marketing. We're marketing professionals who are also writers. So we have a lot of background in marketing and a lot of seen a lot of BS in marketing and know kind of how to spot it. And we are both interested in eco-friendly living or like how individual choices that we make can maybe contribute to a more sustainable world or more, you know,

Tiffany (09:20)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (09:24)
to say it when like they're just bombing countries in the Middle East. you know, ⁓ as Americans, when we're fed all these products with all of these sustainability claims, how do we go like, no, or yeah, I'll do that. You know, that that makes sense. You know, not spraying Roundup on my lawn is a good way, you know, think small things you can do small choices you can make. ⁓ So

Tiffany (09:27)
I know.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (09:53)
And even if we all do them, we'd have a big impact.

Tiffany (09:57)
Yeah,

and I will say...

It is interesting already, it's only been less than a week, but like becoming hyper focused on our finances has also made me hyper focused on waste.

Kat (10:12)
Yeah.

Tiffany (10:13)
And in a way, I'm kind of relieved because I'm like, I feel like I could have.

started to become really wasteful. Because we were about to enter an era where we were like, going to be really fine on money because we just paid off Charlie's school. We had more resources. Yeah. And I already kind of felt myself being like, I could just buy that new. And it's sort of this like idea.

Kat (10:26)
Yeah.

Yeah.

she's going into kindergarten. Yes. And yeah.

Tiffany (10:48)
that new is better and that if you have more money, you deserve better. It's like this crazy, yes.

Kat (10:52)
It ⁓ feeds into it and

it's kind of a chicken or the egg thing. I noticed it. I bought a BMW from a friend of mine and I was like, I had never bought a BMW. But it was actually like a really good car and I probably owned it for six months because it was way too much car for me. there's all these studies about BMW drivers are assholes because they did that study about

Tiffany (11:08)
Yeah.

Okay.

Kat (11:20)
They clocked cars at a crosswalk and found that luxury car drivers were the ones who wouldn't stop for people more often, things like that. Flawed studies probably, but like, or the idea that like if you're playing Monopoly and you have them, you're given more money, Monopoly money, you will treat people like you're better than them. And I remember when I had the BMW and it was like,

Tiffany (11:28)
Yes, yes, yes, yeah.

my god. ⁓

Kat (11:46)
I was just mad at people for going slow. And then I realized it was because my car just went faster than theirs automatically. Like it just got up to 65 miles an hour, like immediately, you know, and that I was like, ⁓ right. If you were in a little dinky Honda and it takes 30 more seconds to get, especially going up a hill, you know, you aren't mad at the people around you because you're the one holding up traffic, you know, and it's like, but you kind of come to

Tiffany (11:58)
Right.

Uh-huh.

Yes

Kat (12:16)
⁓ expect other people's behavior to match the level of privilege you're experiencing. And, know, I like, when I used to, I had this epiphany when I was like riding my bike to work once, you don't notice the wind when it's at your back. You only notice it when it's in your face. And so you're like, I'm whizzing past, I'm going so fast because the wind's at my back. And if other people have the wind in their face,

Tiffany (12:24)
huh.

Right.

Kat (12:43)
going to be going slower and you'll be like, what is wrong with you? I don't have any reason why I'm faster than and it's like, no, you literally have a better car, enough money to afford your electrical bill. You don't have to think about, I'll just buy this thing new. it's so funny how quickly we can forget how hard it is to just not even be really poor, but just have just

Tiffany (12:54)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (13:12)
Not enough money. Just not enough money. Yeah.

Tiffany (13:14)
Right, and to stress about it and like,

yeah, yes, it's crazy. And it's like so equated with like morality. Yeah.

Kat (13:22)
Morality. Yeah. Like you're lazy. know, and I,

I, know, when I was underemployed these past few years and I was like, man, like, you know, I don't have, I'm not saving any money. I can't contribute to my retirement. I'm just like paying the bills. I, you know, wasn't, I wouldn't even like take myself out for a cup of coffee, you know? And like Sean was buying all the groceries and you know, luckily, you know, I had Sean, but I like felt

Tiffany (13:46)
Right. Yeah.

Kat (13:51)
So like, well, it's because you're not trying hard enough and, that it's your fault. And, know, not that like, again, the hiring market is shit and nobody's hiring people at a living wage. like, you know, it was no, there's something wrong with me, you know? ⁓ and that guilt just, it's so such a quick American switch, you know? ⁓ and instead of being like, why aren't there safety nets for people who aren't in

Tiffany (13:56)
Yes.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (14:21)
destitution. is it? Why do have

Tiffany (14:22)
Yes.

Kat (14:23)
to be destitute to for our society to support each other?

Tiffany (14:27)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. It's so crazy. And we could just have a whole episode, like Patreon episode about being laid off. But yeah, it's like, will, last thing I'll say is like, I went to Sam's Club. I actually have never been in Sam's Club. have a, not, not ever, but since I moved here, I did when I was younger, but ⁓ I have a membership because my mother-in-law got us one. Cause she was like, you.

Kat (14:34)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (14:57)
She's gotten it for us for a couple of years and I do use it for like, I don't know. I used to use it for diapers and stuff. Yeah. And just random shit. ⁓ and I went in there and I was like, I hate going to Walmart and I know it's like basically Walmart, but big. so I didn't know what to expect. And instead of it feeling depressing, it was like one of the more uplifting things I've done in a long time.

Kat (14:59)
Yeah.

Yeah, like yeah.

Tiffany (15:24)
And I have no idea why, but like people were so nice to each other and to me. And I don't know. It was just like so, it just felt like I, like I am here on a fucking Thursday afternoon with people and I don't know what it was. It was just like such a nice, it just felt like I was back among humanity.

Kat (15:53)
Yes, that's huge. Getting yourself out of the house when you're laid off or going through grief, like after the initial shock is over. mean, and it, yeah, we should have an episode of this. I, I have realized I have cut myself off from so many people just by accident, just because I, I'm like, I don't want to leave the house and I don't want to be around people. And like, when you go out and just, yeah, even just go to a park.

Tiffany (15:55)
Yeah.

Yes.

Wish I...

Kat (16:22)
but yeah, cool grocery shopping. And it's like, ⁓ right.

Tiffany (16:24)
Yeah. And it kind of felt

like Sam's Club was like a way to feel more in control because you're like, these prices are insane. And of course I'm not going to go out and buy like, you know, I don't need a hundred.

Kat (16:29)
Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

of a bluey bounce house.

Tiffany (16:40)
Yes! That is there, that is there. Yeah. No, exactly. It's like, I don't need most of this, but like, some of it I was just like, okay, this jam here is like a really good deal. Like, maybe I should come shopping here for certain things and yeah, I don't know. It was just, it was, it was, it was good. So yeah, I've been trying. Yeah, like you said, I've been trying to go out and be among humans. So yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (17:05)
Yeah, find a glimmer from time to time. We are social creatures and yeah,

it's not on the internet. I'll tell you that much.

Tiffany (17:12)
No, But anyway.

Kat (17:14)
Yeah. Okay. So that's who we are and what we're going through currently. But tonight, what are we talking about? So I said it in the intro, hope for flowers. It's a fashion brand that is quote, designed for women who are inspired by beauty and desire to use their power as consumers, as.

to be agents of positive change in the world. I had a typo there. It's like two bad gents. What is bad gents? Be agents for positive change in the world, which sounds pretty lovely. Like you like beauty. Cool. Yeah. ⁓ you want to use your power as consumers, which is historically, ⁓ if you look back into like how political change happened and like just post industrial revolution, was women.

Tiffany (17:43)
okay.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (18:08)
not buying stuff or buying stuff. yeah. ⁓ you know, positive change of the world. Cool. They claim to incorporate positive, social and ecological practices. Those are all adjectives there. and operating structures so they can imbue their products with greater substance.

Tiffany (18:09)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (18:29)
and offer customers an opportunity to be part of doing good while looking good. So that sounds super, super cool, right? I'm going to go a little bit in the history of Hope for Flowers. Tracy, it's women's clothing. I should say that. Yeah. So Tracy Reese is the designer. She's a black woman. She's been working in fashion since 1998. She started

Tiffany (18:35)
Okay.

What kind of stuff do they sell? Just women. Okay. Okay.

Kat (18:58)
her own brand called Tracy Reese and then expanded to include sub brands like Plenty, Frock, and Black Label. And her designs have been sold in Barneys, Bergdorf Goodman, Neiman Marcus, Nordstrom, and anthropology. And you might have heard of her because in 2012, First Lady Michelle Obama wore a custom Tracy Reese dress to address the Democratic National Convention. Yes. But she like quit everything. I didn't.

Tiffany (19:12)
well.

Okay, okay.

Kat (19:29)
I think maybe in 2009 even, she kind of like stopped everything. didn't, I meant to write down what year she quit, but she like walked away from fashion, but she launched Hope for Flowers by Tracy Reese, that's the full title, in 2019 as a responsibly designed and produced collection with a mission to create, again, positive social impact by empowering women and young people, specifically through arts programming in public schools and-

Tiffany (19:55)
whoa.

Kat (19:56)
collaboration with local artisans in Detroit. So that's a different tactic than, you know, ⁓ very hands-on community oriented kind of still fashion. But she's also says she's committed to the notion that sustainability shouldn't be elitist, which I freaking love. Yes. ⁓ But it's also kind of redefining sustainability, I think, which I'll get into.

Tiffany (19:59)
Whoa.

Yeah.

Mmm, I do love that.

Okay.

Kat (20:23)
But I said here, if you're like us, all of this is the kind of stuff that makes you want to buy her stuff without question, right? Just like, I'll buy all of it, right? And her designs are super pretty. They're colorful. There's dresses, blouses, pants, jumpers, skirts, jackets, like coats. She has all of that. they're like interesting prints, ⁓ interesting shapes. One of the things I hate is that you get a jacket from

Tiffany (20:27)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

I haven't looked actually. I wanna see.

yeah.

Kat (20:53)
of them all, like even like upper, upper brand stores like J.Crew or Banana Republic or something. It's just a plain, the same blazer everyone else has. Like this is interesting stuff. Like it's unique. Yeah.

Tiffany (21:00)
Yeah. Yeah. It's really pretty.

It's fun.

Kat (21:09)
Yeah. ⁓ Okay. So then I want to say like, okay, so what is slow fashion? And she doesn't mention this on her site, but I wanted to get into, cause they're noted for being a slow fashion brand ⁓ in most of the media that's out there about her. says, you know, that there are, they, they were built on the tenants of slow fashion. So slow fashion is obviously the opposite of fast fashion, right? It means designers and producers consider processes and resources that are more sustainable.

Tiffany (21:17)
Okay.

Kat (21:39)
while encouraging consumers to buy less through better quality garments. So again, you're going to pay more, but for better quality and for less of it. Slow fashion brands are also supposed to value fair treatment of people, fair people of animals and fair, or fair treatment of animals and fair treatment of the planet. ⁓ so the, term slow fashion was coined by Kate Fletcher of the Center for Sustainable Fashion and

Tiffany (21:44)
Hmm.

Right. Yeah.

you

Okay.

Kat (22:09)
She coined it after the slow food movement. Yeah. ⁓ It champions high quality, lower impact materials like linen or cotton, ⁓ timelessness over trendiness, small stores over huge chains, local sourcing, producing and selling, fewer styles per collection and fewer collections per year and made to order to reduce unnecessary production.

Tiffany (22:13)
Okay, I kind of figured.

Nice.

Kat (22:40)
So the other tenets of slow fashion are, shop your closet first. ⁓ Repair things when you can. it needs a small repair, don't throw it out. Repair it. Ask if you really need something new before you go shopping. Try secondhand shopping first. Buy less cheap clothing and replace it with smaller amounts of high quality stuff and dispose of clothing responsibly through upcycling or passing along clothing.

Tiffany (22:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Kat (23:09)
or recycling. So that's slow fashion ⁓ and something to keep in mind when we're discussing Hope for Flowers. We haven't really talked about slow fashion brands here because I think, wondering if we should take a break now. OK. The next section is pretty long. We can take a break here. But it's going to be a long second half, people, so buckle in.

Tiffany (23:09)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

No, I'm glad that we are though.

Yeah, probably.

It's fine. Okay.

Kat (23:51)
Okay, welcome back. Our next section that we've been asking this season is like, what sustainability claims does the brand make? ⁓ and so Hope for Flowers makes a couple of sustainability claims. And I think, again, this is redefining sustainability from not just a eco-friendly mindset, but again, from kind of the human and, and again, local centered mindset. So it's not just about.

Tiffany (23:58)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (24:20)
I mean, I went into, cause we're based on, you know, eco-friendliness very much like the earth part, but, let's just say like there are three guiding principles are health of people, health of planet and equity and profit. So again, that human aspect. And I think we find over and over again, the local is the best thing you can do for the planet. Right. ⁓ so let's dig into that. So they claim to responsibly source their materials.

Tiffany (24:34)
Hmm. ⁓

Kat (24:50)
minimize waste, then most importantly, enrich the local community through art and collaborate with organizations and businesses to strengthen the art as an ecosystem.

Tiffany (25:01)
That is so cool. That's like, I've never heard of a clothing brand doing that, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist elsewhere.

Kat (25:08)
Yeah, I've seen it in some, some, it's always, it's always very small scale. And I, I'll get into that a little bit. ⁓ so they have three pillars, conscious design, community art in Detroit and partnerships. So conscious is. Yeah. Yeah. So conscious design is the pillar that has the most eco-friendly sustainability stuff in it. So I'm going to kind of dig into that the most, guess. number one is they do digital prints. So.

Tiffany (25:23)
Are they based in Detroit? OK. OK, very cool.

Kat (25:38)
The company claims to use prints that are designed and drawn by Tracy herself and then digitize and printed onto the fabric. So digital printing is more environmentally friendly because it uses less ink and can be done on demand than, I guess, screen printing or other kind of large scale factory manufacturing kind of printing, like large batch. ⁓ They don't have to print high minimums so they will eventually, that they would just eventually throw away.

Tiffany (25:57)
⁓ okay.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (26:07)
That's

another issue with H ⁓ or these other brands is they print so much stuff and then whatever doesn't get bought, doesn't get sold gets thrown away. with digital printing, you can just do it kind of on demand. They still do print runs, but they're much smaller. They also claim to use Oeco-Tex certified inks that don't have harmful chemicals. ⁓ Again,

Tiffany (26:18)
Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

Kat (26:36)
Number two is small batch production. So dovetailing with that digital printing, they only produce the clothing that has already been sold to retail partners. So the retail partners, you know, make their orders, then they fulfill those orders. They don't print more and just ship out, know, keep a bunch in stock somewhere. And then they keep a small amount for direct to consumer sales.

Tiffany (26:59)
How interesting. Okay, so my whole thinking about this, you did say Nordstrom and stuff, but the whole time I had been thinking that they were only direct to consumer, but they do ship to big box stores.

Kat (27:06)
Yeah.

I think have some,

I think less so. looks like most of her collections now are mostly directed to consumer, but so most of this new, that was her old fashion lines were featured in. I think she's had some like short runs in, you know, larger department stores, but. ⁓

Tiffany (27:23)
Okay, I gotcha, I gotcha.

I was going to say that seems really hard to gauge and make it.

Kat (27:34)
Yeah.

Well, and so if you look at her new stuff, it really, I think I've seen some of it in anthropology. So she does have some items in anthropology, but it does seem mostly to be direct to consumer from her website. and again, this reduces waste and as well as the amount of energy it takes to produce huge runs of clothing. Right. So, and then the third part of that was responsible sourcing.

Tiffany (27:42)
Okay.

Okay.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

Kat (28:04)
So they claim to mindfully source fibers produced with a lower environmental impact and durability. So organically grown plant-based fibers whenever possible. Now we talked about it again, like Tensell and Licell. I probably should have gotten into whether or not those are more responsible than...

Tiffany (28:15)
Hmm.

Yeah, I feel like we talked about it so many years ago and we should yeah, we could revisit but

Kat (28:27)
Yeah, that I'm just.

So they don't focus on that a lot, but their hang tags, these are other ways that they're doing it. Their hang tags are made of recycled cardboard with an organic cotton tie, which is like, oh, Cool. And then they prioritize eco-friendly trims. So their buttons are made from a Akoia shell or Corozo. So not plastic buttons, which is that's cool. And then they also claim to use eco-enclosed, which is a direct.

Tiffany (28:40)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Kat (29:03)
⁓ a thin film recyclable mailer ⁓ for direct to consumer shipments with a second adhesive strip for use and they... Yeah.

Tiffany (29:11)
Huh.

I would be really curious

about that. Recyclable wear.

Kat (29:19)
Yeah. Well, I think they, they claim that these items that they're made from 50 % post-consumer waste. they're already recycled plastic on them. But I was like, well, it's not paper though. Like, you know, or cardboard, even though we like, I don't know. ⁓ yeah. Well, and so they do say they have future plans, which all of the sustainability pages on the internet have their future plans. So.

Tiffany (29:37)
Yeah, that one's tricky, but...

Kat (29:48)
Hope for Flowers plans to deepen the sustainability of their design and production by launching a dressmaker apprenticeship program with the Department of Labor to focus on developing advanced skills to produce luxury fashion in Detroit.

Tiffany (29:56)
my gosh.

Wow.

my god, I love that.

Kat (30:05)
I'm worried that.

Tiffany (30:07)
And also shit.

Kat (30:08)
Yeah, that can't be done now because what Department of Labor? Yeah. And I think probably. Well, the aim is to grow the local creative economy, which Detroit needs, and reduce the carbon footprint by using in-housing samples and in-house production, right? So that you're not flying things back and forth across the United States. It's all, I mean, again, local.

Tiffany (30:11)
Yeah, like when was that written? Maybe, maybe in three years.

Yeah.

Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (30:34)
They said they plan to strengthen their supply chain with partners who are transparent about production practices and only work with GOT certified fibers, which we've talked about. They said they're planning to visit production partners in China, Peru and India more often to see their operations firsthand to ensure workers are valued. We're just kind of like, okay, so we're still working with textile producers in China, Peru, India, you know, and I think that's just kind of how it has to go.

Tiffany (30:44)
Mm-hmm.

Right.

Kat (31:04)
for these kinds of brands. they have their permanent factory space, or the space that they do design work out of, think, runs on electricity only and is outfitted with furnishings from local vendors that use sustainably sourced materials, which I thought was a cute touch. OK.

Tiffany (31:07)
Right.

Yeah. Wait,

electricity only versus coal?

Kat (31:27)
I guess

gas, well, see, that's the issue. When you say electricity only, that's like getting electric car until we produce clean electricity, which we don't do. That's kind of like, that's a, you know, no, right. It's not natural gas. but it's still like just passing the buck, you know? Yeah. So they didn't have anything about like how they're reducing the amount. mean, using

Tiffany (31:30)
You

Right.

Yeah, it's not nothing. Like definitely not nothing. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's like downstream.

Kat (31:56)
On-demand printing is reducing waste and reducing energy usage. So there are ways, there weren't any like, well, I'll get into that. They also said they planned to have suppliers ship their garments in biodegradable glassine bags instead of poly bags. that's again, biodegradable plastic, which we've talked about. But the date on that was by 2024 and it is 2026. So that's what makes me think the sustainability page hasn't been updated.

Tiffany (32:04)
Hmm.

Okay.

Yeah.

Kat (32:25)
And I'm like, ⁓ so probably, yeah.

Tiffany (32:28)
Yeah, that's kind of a bummer.

Kat (32:32)
But OK, my next section was their community initiatives, which I found like that's their next pillar, right? It's a bit hard to link them directly to eco sustainability, except again by like local is better. But they offer community workshops centered on sustainable living practices. And that's sustainable not in the sense of like eco, but like ongoing. That we are creating a lifestyle for you that you can continue.

Tiffany (32:39)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (32:58)
to empower people in Detroit with tools to sustain their communities, so community building, and dispel the myth that sustainability is elitist, right? So yeah, I said, I really like this. They're helping youth and adults acquire creative tools for economic self-sufficiency and creative career pathways. And that again is something, you know, we're talking about like privilege, like being a fashion designer is, you know,

Tiffany (33:07)
Mm-hmm. I love that.

Ugh, that's beautiful.

Kat (33:28)
Your parents aren't going to pay for that kind of schooling. like you have to have a lot of different things go your way right for that to work out. And a lot of that is based in privileges that only certain people generally have. So, but like creativity and I mean, I really, I really liked that a lot, that community pillar. ⁓ especially cause Detroit has been through hell as a city. ⁓ and I haven't.

Tiffany (33:39)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, I do too.

Yeah.

Kat (33:58)
I haven't visited it. I don't really know what it's like. can't speak to it. I've been to the airport, you know? ⁓ but I know in the, you know, in the news, it's, it's a Rust Belt city that's been through some crap and I, it's really cool to hear people like, ⁓ yeah, I'm doing a, a really like pretty well renowned business. mean, she had articles about her in Vanity Fair and you know, ⁓ I mean, that's,

Tiffany (34:04)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (34:28)
really appreciate that.

Tiffany (34:28)
Yeah,

and just like, it says a lot about her because she's using her, I guess, platform, you could call it, but like her resources to help other people. just, I really love that to like, not only give back,

Kat (34:40)
100%.

Tiffany (34:45)
it's not charity. It's like you're giving, like you're not teaching, you're not showing the fish. What is it? Showing...

Kat (34:45)
Yeah. No.

Teach

a man to fish, teach a man horse fish, one day fish. Yes. Yes. You're not, you're not giving them a fish. Yeah. You're not giving a man a fish. You're teaching people how to fish. Yeah.

Tiffany (34:57)
You're not showing the fish out of water.

Yes. Yeah,

but like teaching people how to do, you know, their own creative careers. And that's so cool. I love that. That is so neat.

Kat (35:12)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And

to stay to provide me, that's the thing that was always a case in, New Mexico too, was we had a brain drain because the best and brightest would leave to go somewhere else. Cause there just wasn't infrastructure to.

whatever you wanted to do unless you were going to go into ⁓ what you know Sandia National Labs ⁓ rocket science or guess bioengineering or engineering. ⁓ Like there aren't support structures for creative arts or you know sciences that are you know.

Tiffany (35:36)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, it reminds me of actually my hometown is like very small in Indiana, but it's there's a it actually is a former artists colony, like back in the late 1800s. And there, I think there's a lot of that sort of mindset still there. And we're also really close to Indiana University. So ⁓

Kat (36:03)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (36:18)
It's like there are so many small businesses that are actually thriving still, even though we are what most people would call like middle of nowhere. ⁓ But it's really awesome to see because every time I go back, I feel like there's more stuff opened up and just more infrastructure being built. And it's so inspiring.

Kat (36:36)
Yeah.

And I feel that Albuquerque has done a lot of that too. They shoot themselves in the foot in a lot of ways, but they've had incubators for STEM stuff. Netflix has a studio there, although I think that Netflix is exploitative of New Mexico. ⁓ But it's those little businesses that are doing cool stuff.

Tiffany (36:56)
Mmm.

Yeah,

and you watch them grow and it's so exciting.

Kat (37:06)
Yeah.

Yeah. And we were talking before we started this about like, we're talking about like tiny, a tiny business and that like, yeah, not every business has to try and be a disruptive world changing Facebook billion dollar. Like sometimes it's just, make a living and you have an impact on your community in it in a positive way. And it doesn't have to be this mind blowing, earth shattering, world traveling, you know.

Tiffany (37:13)
Mm-hmm. There's a book that I'm reading,

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, like global

platform. Yeah, you don't need fame. You just need to matter the people around you. Yeah.

Kat (37:36)
Yeah, it's... Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, and

maybe not even always make enough money to have food on the table, ideally, but maybe that's not the

Tiffany (37:48)
Yeah, well,

the idea of the book is that you are financially stable, but yes.

Kat (37:51)
Yes, making enough to have money. Yeah.

But I mean, financially stable is also a very fluid thing.

Tiffany (37:58)
Yeah, and it's dependent on what you consider financially stable for sure, but like basically have enough income to live the life that you want, whatever that means to you.

Kat (38:01)
Right.

Yeah.

And I really kind of appreciate, like obviously she was designing for Michelle Obama. And I don't think that this is like a tiny business that she has now, but comparatively, like this isn't, let's get all of our stuff into all of the highest Parisian department stores. know, it's, let's focus locally and yeah, I don't know. I appreciate it.

Tiffany (38:16)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's really cool.

Kat (38:36)
⁓ And the last pillar again was partnerships. So they're working to position Detroit as a modern sustainable garment design and production hub. Right? ⁓ The only item in here about that though is a scarf collaboration they did with a local artist from 2021 to 2023. They talked about they took some designs from a local like art producer and made a scarf that they featured in one of their collections. So I don't

Tiffany (38:40)
Mm-hmm.

Ugh, that's so cool.

Kat (39:05)
No, how that's going. But they also partner with Nest Craft Coalition to link their brand to a global community of Fairtrade certified production partners, which we've talked about is like, okay, there's this and that. then they've, yeah, but they've also collaborated with some pretty big brands, like they launched a sustainable shoe capsule collection in 2022 with naturalizer.

Tiffany (39:17)
Yeah. Mm-hmm. Better than nothing.

Hmm, okay.

Kat (39:31)
And in 2021, they worked with pottery barn kids and kids, guess, to create a collection of responsibly sourced organic cotton fabric kids clothing. So.

Tiffany (39:40)
interesting. I will

say Pottery Barn Kids has such cute shit. It's so cute. Yeah. Maybe that's why. It's also very expungeive, so.

Kat (39:44)
Yeah. So yeah, they're okay. Yeah, it was, it is very

expensive. So that's, yeah, we'll get into that. Okay. So do these claims hold up? As far as I can tell, yeah. I mean, we've previously discussed the issues with fair trade certification, junk and like organic cotton. There is some green hooey. There's a lot of like, we had to put, you know, eco-friendly sustainability claims up there.

Tiffany (39:56)
Mm.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (40:13)
The biggest

difference for me is the print on demand aspect of it. So this does reduce the need to discard items that go unsold, right? And according to, so Printful was the site I was looking at. The fashion industry throws away about 2 million tons of textiles every year. So reducing that, that's just the industry. That's not even us buying it and dumping it, yeah.

Tiffany (40:16)
Mmm... Mm-hmm.

Yeah, yeah.

Two million tons, god.

Kat (40:39)
⁓ and then these new printing techniques that they come out rely on water-based inks and dyes rather than plastisol inks. ⁓ so, and if you only print one item at a time, you use less water and create less waste. So, ⁓ compared to screen printing, it's a better option, but I couldn't, I couldn't really find any stats on exactly how much less water print on demand uses or how much of an impact these kinds of companies make by being, you know, ⁓

Tiffany (40:56)
Interesting.

Kat (41:09)
And that print on demand now that I think it was about fabrics, but that might actually have been about, it must have been because they were talking about screen printing. Um, cause print on demand for paper products obviously makes more sense too. Um, but so there's not a lot of statistics out there that I could find in a quick, you know, search that we do about how slow fashion, like what are the numbers on how much they're actually doing? Um,

Tiffany (41:15)
Yeah.

Right, right, right.

Yeah.

Kat (41:37)
But I think her claims about building local community and stuff, that holds up. And again, it looks like the website hasn't been updated in a while. So I didn't see how many collaborations she's doing, but I do know that she is running those. And who knows what happened during COVID, right, about those art partnerships and things. So.

Tiffany (41:48)
Yeah.

Yeah, right.

Yeah, I mean, at she's trying. That's really amazing. That's like absolutely not something you have to do as a, yeah, or like a fashion brand. Yeah, it's, that's so cool. Yeah.

Kat (42:04)
Right. Yeah.

Right, as a business.

Yeah, yeah, name a fashion brand. Like that really does that.

So our next question is, is this something a normal person could do or afford? Okay. So the clothes that hope for flowers are definitely more expensive than your fast fashion counterparts, um, as expected. most of the shirts clock in around $250. And the dresses and pants go anywhere from like 450 to 600.

Tiffany (42:20)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Okay.

you

Kat (42:38)
They can go up

to $6.55 or more, which is pretty steep for me. Most of the clothes come in sizes from extra small to extra large, which isn't super inclusive. And even though they're supposedly print on demand, they appear to run out of sizes on a lot of their items. So some of the prettier dresses have an extra small left. That can create a kind of rush since to buy stuff before it sells out to me, which I don't love.

Tiffany (42:47)
Okay. Yeah.

Okay.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Oops.

Kat (43:05)
Um, but again,

if you're supposed to buy these items once and wear them forever, you know, if I only owned five dresses total, I would be happy to have one of these probably. I will say, I don't know about the timelessness of some of their designs. Like puff sleeves have got to go away. Like we've had puff sleeves since like 2021 and I'm, I'm like, it's fun to be Anna Green Gables once in a while, but they've let's stop.

Tiffany (43:16)
Yeah.

You

Kat (43:34)
And like, there's a lot of puff sleeves. like, I don't know why it's like, you can't put a sweater over it, you know? Like maybe it does add some visual interest, but like puff sleeves, come on guys. Like, yeah.

Tiffany (43:36)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm. I don't have anything

with puff sleeves.

Kat (43:51)
I've some of my rent the runway dresses I've done and it's like, okay, like off the shoulder maybe. But yeah, you can't put anything over it. You're just like, well, there was like a funny Instagram post I saw a woman who was like, I wore a jumper over my shirt today over this shirt. And she's wearing like a puff sleeve, you know, she's in England. So she's a jumper. I won't do that anymore. I'm sorry. That's not a real English accent. But she's like, and all of my colleagues were staring at me and I couldn't figure out why.

Tiffany (43:53)
yeah. It's cool. Yeah. I mean, I think it looks nice. Mm-hmm. You're right. I'll just be cold.

You

Kat (44:20)
And then I came home and looked in the mirror and she puts the jumper on over her puff sleeve and she looks like a linebacker. It's just like, she's like, I was called at work. Yeah. Puff sleeves are not user friendly. I would say in that way, but there's a lot of puff sleeves on that site, but then there's some really cool, mean, again, it's stuff you, if you walked into anthropology and you saw it, you'd be like, yes, that is an anthropology dress. Cause it's very interesting. There's like interesting.

Tiffany (44:25)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's hilarious. OK.

Kat (44:50)
colors and you know it's not all this beige pastel boring stuff it's like simple but interesting which I am like I do like that ⁓ and I like color I I hate I hate bland clothing ⁓

Tiffany (45:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

I'm looking at these dresses. They're so freaking pretty.

Kat (45:09)
They're just gorgeous. Yeah.

I know if I could, I can't afford $700 for a dress right now.

Tiffany (45:17)
No.

Kat (45:19)
And it would stand out in my closet. would be the only one. ⁓ Sean, I found a brand called the kit that claims to do kind of the sustainable print on demand as well. and they're less expensive. So I worry a little bit about their fair trade practices and things, and I haven't looked into them, but I feel like every birthday or something, Sean orders me something from the kit and they don't do, okay. So that's the other thing is she uses, you know, organic, all of her stuff is organic cotton, you know, ⁓

Tiffany (45:30)
Hmm.

⁓ interesting.

Kat (45:49)
I'm pretty sure the kit is not any, not very much natural fabric. Uh, there's some, but it's not, you know, certified organic. It's more affordable stuff. It's print on demand. So you feel better about that. But at the same time, okay, you know, there's all kinds of other issues. Um, but for, you know, again, it's not a $5,000 Louis Vuitton jacket.

Tiffany (45:57)
⁓

Kat (46:19)
Right? These are under a thousand dollars, under $500 for a shirt that you're supposed to keep and wear forever. You know, like, okay, if you are going to stop buying 15 new shirts a week from Target, yeah, you could afford one of these once a year, you know, or two or three of these pieces and keep them for 10 years. Yeah. So.

Tiffany (46:19)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Right, right.

Kat (46:48)
It's, you know, again, better made, better product, you know, better, you know, I think you could afford it if you're already spending money on clothes that adds up to a certain amount of year. Buy two of these rather than, you know, 30 of those.

Tiffany (46:53)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's cool.

Kat (47:10)
Yeah.

Tiffany (47:12)
Yeah

I hate buying things on the internet.

Kat (47:18)
Me too. That's the other thing. You can't try it on.

Tiffany (47:21)
Mm-hmm. do trust that it would fit nicer and you can always get it tailored, but then that's at another expense. But it's like, I just hate it. Because then, you know, you don't know what the return policy is going to, how the returns are going to go. ⁓

Kat (47:23)
And I didn't.

Yeah. Yeah.

No, I agree.

And I didn't

see much online about that either. It's like when she came out in 2019, there was a lot of buzz and then I think COVID happened. I couldn't find a lot of information about that, but she does have a spring collection up and it's really pretty. ⁓

Tiffany (47:45)
Mmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I also hate returning stuff because I'm like, this is a wasteful. Yeah. It's just like, it's like a whole thing. So I usually just avoid buying stuff online, but.

Kat (48:01)
Yeah. But

again, if you're doing slow fashion and you're buying it online, buy the larger size, get it tailored.

Tiffany (48:08)
Yeah, yeah, that's true actually. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (48:11)
So you can hear my dog sparking in the background, sorry.

Ada opened the door and then, okay. So our next question is, does the earth friendly message need to come back to earth? ⁓ Maybe. This is another one of those things. They haven't updated their sustainability page in a while, which we keep running into. The print on demand and local focus I think are really important.

And while the print on demand sustainability was mostly explained, it's hard to tell how they're out of the country textile factories like reduce water use, et cetera. And finally, there's again, we have to reiterate, no consumer brand can ever be truly sustainable or eco-friendly. It's just not possible. They're reducing your impact. But

Tiffany (48:49)
Yeah.

It's not like going out and buying all their products makes you more sustainable. It's the opposite. Yeah.

Kat (48:58)
Right. It's not going to save the earth. Right. Yeah.

I just wish there were more hard numbers about how they're reducing wastewater, know, reducing waste, water usage, electricity, et cetera. ⁓ and maybe some sustainability impact about the, those, those local community. I'd like to see that. So, yeah, but at the same time, I don't feel like they're saying

Tiffany (49:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, totally. Even just some pictures.

Kat (49:26)
Earth friendly, you know, they're not like, they're not saying we are the most Earth friendly brand. They're saying we're trying to empower women to wear pretty clothes, you know, and kind of embrace slow fashion while helping local community. So yeah, it's not quints or packed. Yeah, it's not. You're buying organic cotton will save your life and, and the universe. It's like.

Tiffany (49:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, there's definitely less hooey there than in a lot of brands like Quince. Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

⁓

Kat (49:56)
we're trying to make a sustainability impact, but our focus is on slow fashion and art, you know, and, her art, you know, so, I don't know. I didn't feel like it needed.

Tiffany (50:02)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (50:10)
There's Archie. Hi Archie, thanks for barking. For one Archie, my barking dog. ⁓ okay. So our TLDR is the granola rating. This is every week we rank the product or service we're talking about on a scale of one to five granolas. The crunchier the granola, the better. So a one is soggy, a two is mushy, a three is chewy, a four is crunchy and a five is break your tooth off. And that's the best you can get. So.

Tiffany (50:11)
Yeah, I him. ⁓ lord.

Mm.

Kat (50:37)
I'm inclined to give Hope for Flowers a 3.5 or a 4. ⁓ I really like the push to make Detroit a local nexus of fashion design and open up opportunities for cities that hasn't had a lot of good going on in it for a while, you know? I also like the push to remove elitism from sustainability and to kind of broaden what sustainability means, that it's a community effort. ⁓ I like that.

Tiffany (50:56)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (51:04)
And the slow fashion movement is for sure a better alternative to fast fashion as long as you truly buy less and, you know, maintain it. So that was what I thought. I'm going to say it's a 3.5 to a four. I wouldn't feel bad buying from.

Tiffany (51:09)
Mm-hmm.

Okay, I like that.

Yeah, that's like way higher than anything else this season. Yeah.

Kat (51:27)
Yeah, sometimes we're like 2.5. This, this,

and I think that she's not trying to pull the wool over your eyes by being like, I use 100 % cotton. That's just so much better if she's like, I'm trying. the dog. Hi Archie. I'm sorry. Dog visits tonight. Yeah. Um, so yeah, this is, it felt like a better brand than.

Tiffany (51:40)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I like it. It did restore my hope in some ways. Yay. Hope for flowers. Cool.

Kat (51:55)
Yeah.

Hope for flowers. ⁓ Yeah, so

next week I've got you talking about upcycled leather handbags.

Tiffany (52:04)
Mm-hmm. That's pretty interesting.

Kat (52:07)
I am kind of fascinated about this.

Tiffany (52:09)
Yeah. Or my original title, which may still continue to be the one I use is animal skin that's been around the block.

Kat (52:19)
gosh, sorry vegans,

haha. But, okay, I can see. Yeah.

Tiffany (52:23)
Yeah.

Yeah. So we'll see how it goes. Should be good. Cool. ⁓

Kat (52:28)
Sounds good.

All right, well.

Tiffany (52:36)
I feel like there was something I thought of a couple days ago that I was like, this is what we should tell or ask people to do, but now it's gone.

Kat (52:43)
Smash that like button. But only that I've been listening to this AI thing that's like, smash, go on and smash that like button and subscribe, but only if you're really interested in what we're talking about. then, okay, do that. Read us a review if you think about it. We love it.

Tiffany (52:45)
There you go.

Yeah, five stars, please, for the love of God.

Kat (53:04)
Yeah, I know. Five granolas. Break your tooth off.

Tiffany (53:07)
Five

granola is the crunchiest granola around. Yeah, cool. Yeah, thanks for sharing.

Kat (53:13)
Awesome. All right. Well, thanks. Thanks for listening, everyone.

Tiffany (53:20)
Bye!

Kat (53:20)
Cool. To live!

Tiffany (53:24)
Bye.