Tiffany (00:02)
Hello?

Kat (00:03)
Hello!

Tiffany (00:06)
Long time no see. Mm-hmm. Yeah, we record these. We batch them, usually. So as much as our brains can handle. OK, so.

Kat (00:07)
That's been 5 minutes.

We do imagine.

I don't know. Let's just not talk about that. I am. It is still Marty Grav when we're recording and I am still my boyfriend has forced me to drink a full hazy. So forced insisted.

Tiffany (00:23)
you

forced.

Shut

it down your throat. I'm jealous. ⁓ It sounds so good. I know. Yeah. So I did not write an intro today. we ⁓ are going to power through, but I have some ideas on the intro.

Kat (00:38)
I would share it with you if I could. Yeah, it's refreshing. It is.

That's why we're talking about hazy beers. Yeah.

Okay,

let's hear them.

Tiffany (00:57)
Do you know how silk is made?

Kat (01:00)
I have a vague understanding of how silk is made. So silkworms produce their cocoons.

Tiffany (01:03)
What do you think?

Mm-hmm.

How is- that's not vague, that's like, yes.

Kat (01:12)
Okay. And

they take the cocoons and make the silk out of it and they murder the caterpillars basically. Yeah. I think that was, did you ever read the story about the kid who found a cricket and kept it in a cage? And. Okay. It was made into a cartoon. I just remember that he got a cricket and he kept it in a cage and the Chinese man was like, crickets are good luck and you should feed it mulberries. And then it.

Tiffany (01:15)
Yeah, that's

Yeah, usually. Yeah, which is crazy.

Kat (01:42)
played, it's, you know, as they rub their legs together and it was like a violin thing. This is a core memory of my childhood and I can't remember the name of it.

Tiffany (01:47)
huh.

That's so interesting. Did it turn into a silver? No.

Kat (01:55)
No, I don't

know why that hasn't, but I think they discuss silkworms at the, yeah, cause crickets have nothing to do with silkworms. I don't know what I'm talking about. They feed them mulberry leaves, I think. Yeah. Or they, no silkworms. I think that was the thing is that they was talking about the Chinese man used to work on a silk farm. And so he was like, the silkworms eat the mulberry and maybe the cricket likes it too. I don't know why that's stuck. That's why I know about how silk is made. Okay.

Tiffany (02:00)
Okay.

Well, but the mulberry is...

The crickets? Because they also feed the silkworms, though. Yeah.

Uhhhh

That's

so interesting. yep. Yeah, the mulberry is, that's true. Yeah, they typically murder the worms, which is really interesting. So I'm gonna talk about like how there are companies that don't. They found kind of ways to not kill the worms and why it like...

Kat (02:24)
for some reason.

Mm. Mm.

Interesting.

Tiffany (02:54)
is maybe less sort of satisfying than we would hope for, but it's okay. ⁓ I'm talking today about a company called, I think is a genius name, but also very annoying as a person trying to dig into this stuff. It's called the Ethical Silk Company. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (02:58)
Okay, okay.

It says it all right there. Just say what you do. I don't need a

kitschy, tell me what you do. I love it. 100 % what they're going for, right.

Tiffany (03:21)
Yeah, we know exactly what they're aiming for.

So kind of genius, kind of diabolical. Not really. That's too harsh, it's good branding, I'll say. So yeah, we're going to talk about the ethical silk company. We're going to talk about how it's more ethical, whether it's more ethical.

Kat (03:31)
Hahaha

Okay.

Tiffany (03:48)
and kind of get into a bunch of their claims that they make as far as sustainability and also talk a little bit more about fair trade. Yeah, welcome to Greening Up My Act.

Kat (03:58)
Okay, I'm in.

Tiffany (04:16)
Alrighty.

Kat (04:17)
I'm afraid this hazy beer that my boyfriend forced out my throat is a heavier hitter than I thought it was, because I'm saucy.

Tiffany (04:27)
Feeling loosey goosey, wormy squirmy.

Kat (04:29)
Mm-hmm.

And where am I squirming for the silkworms?

Tiffany (04:33)
Well that's good. We need a wormy squirmy.

Kat (04:37)
necessary for tonight.

Tiffany (04:39)
Yeah, totally. Yeah, well, that intro went OK, actually, about the Chinese man and his cricket. I may have even read it because it sort of sounds familiar, but.

Kat (04:42)
Yeah, that's great.

I'll look up the book and I'm sorry, it was just like...

And there was a cartoon of it on that made the frowns. I feel like it's like.

Tiffany (04:57)
You

Is it probably a fable?

Kat (05:03)
No, it was like a children's book. I really want to look-

Tiffany (05:08)
Maybe be some other people.

Kat (05:11)
Hmm. It was pretty fantastical. I feel like it was also set in like New York city, which also made me like really jealous because I always wished I'd grown up in New York city when I was a little kid. I'm going to look it up while you tell us your sources.

Tiffany (05:14)
Hmm.

How interesting.

Okay, yes. So I looked at the Ethical Silk Company website, go figure. I looked at the World Fair, World Fair, World's Fair, no, the World Fair Trade Organizations website. I looked at this, I actually found one of ⁓ the Ethical Silk Company's fair trade workshops in India.

called Mahira Shah. You can look it up and kind of find it's really interesting. I looked at Forbes when fair trade isn't fair. Yeah.

Kat (06:08)
⁓ Okay,

that's what I needed for my last episode. Okay.

Tiffany (06:12)
Yeah, but to be honest, it's so complicated that I think we're going to have a whole episode just on fair trade. Nature sustainability. There was a report from them. I looked at the corporate accountability lab. I looked at tree hugger, and that was it. So those were my sources.

Kat (06:32)
sounds like a

pretty good amount of sources. The name of the book is...

in times square.

I was correct.

Tiffany (06:47)
Really, I feel like it was New York City, cricket, hmm. I never read that, actually. It doesn't sound familiar. Let me look at the, maybe the cover will look familiar.

Kat (06:51)
the cricket in Times Square.

⁓ maybe.

No, the cover's totally different than I remember being when I was a kid too. But, ⁓

Tiffany (07:01)
yeah, that's fair. ⁓

no. It's like a chapter book.

Kat (07:08)
It's a chapter book for children.

Tiffany (07:09)
Okay, because

I thought it was, I was thinking it was like a picture book.

Kat (07:16)
No, I, yeah, it like stuck with me. It's apparently a classic. Uh huh. And maybe Charlie will get it for Easter. I don't know.

Tiffany (07:21)
Interesting.

Yeah, maybe. I mean, I would read it. It looks cute. Okay, well now that that mystery is solved, they talk about the Mulberry.

Kat (07:33)
Okay. Still don't know

why it silk came into that, but okay. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (07:38)
Yeah, isn't that funny? Those associations from childhood.

Okay, so what are we talking about today? We are talking about the Ethical Silk Company. This company was actually started by a woman named Eva, which they only gave her first name on the website and I didn't feel like searching. Her name's Eva from Dublin. She's from Ireland.

Kat (08:06)
Okay.

Tiffany (08:07)
Their silk is handmade in India. So it's a global workforce. And actually, their website details, it's basically run by four women, according to their website. And they're all living all over Europe. So they kind of go into their story and stuff. But yeah, it's interesting. So.

Kat (08:14)
Okay.

Okay.

Okay?

Okay.

Tiffany (08:36)
I don't know. It's just interesting. But anyway, so their silk is handmade in India. ⁓ They use what's known as mulberry silk.

Or I think it's the same thing. Peace silk is another way to... Yeah, peace silk, like the peaceful whatever. Or ahimsa silk is another way to say it, which... Yes, exactly. So same idea. ⁓

Kat (08:54)
Okay. ⁓

Okay, ahimsa means without harm, right? Yeah.

⁓

okay. This is opening up other things from my, well, just studying. Well, just studying Eastern thought, like as a white girl in college. ⁓ Do no harm.

Tiffany (09:10)
What? Other books and other children's books. Oh yeah. Yeah. I've totally heard the word Ahimsa. I mean, I took a...

Yeah. I don't know what from, but I definitely have heard that word before. so that's the idea of this.

Kat (09:32)
Okay, I am sizzled.

Tiffany (09:33)
sort of special kind of silk that is different than other sort of your standard silk. and the interesting thing is I just, should have, meant to do this in the intro, but obviously it wasn't written out, so I didn't. I looked at Quince because we talked about Quince a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, they have tons of silk. Like that's a whole thing. That's one of their products. And on their website,

Kat (09:49)
Right, they have their washable silk.

Tiffany (10:00)
Basically, it makes it clear that they do not use peace silk because they literally are like, the worms are discarded is what their website says. And I'm like, what? No, not even trying to make it look like, yeah, who cares about worms, I guess. I don't know. So we do. We care about worms.

Kat (10:04)
Okay, they're like.

Wow, not even fed to cattle or something? Yeah. Turn into cricket powder for

Tiffany (10:26)
So alright so that's who they are that's the Ethical Silk Company they're trying this they're trying to produce this sort of new it's not even really that new but this sort of better supposed to be more ethical silk

Kat (10:42)
Okay.

Tiffany (10:44)
What eco for the vegans? Yeah, you could, I think, I don't know if they claim that, but I think you could call it vegan. And we'll get into sort of like now, cause I'm going to talk about their eco-friendly claims, but we'll get into exactly how it is different, the kind of silk that they produce. So, and the fact that they don't produce it, but we'll get there. It is what it is.

Kat (10:44)
for the vegans.

we won't. yeah.

Okay, what that means.

Well, you know.

Tiffany (11:13)
so what eco-friendly claims are they making? They make, I looked into three So one is ethical production. That's one claim that they produce things ethically.

Kat (11:28)
Which, okay, again, as we keep going back to like, is that eco-friendly?

technically.

Tiffany (11:39)
Yeah, if you're talking about sustainability, right.

Kat (11:42)
Yeah,

I guess they go hand in hand, like saying that you're ethical, is my, you know, willingness to, report sexual harassment at work an eco-friendly, you know, like that's ethics, you know, I don't know. It's okay. Keep going. I'm just.

Tiffany (12:02)
Yeah.

Yeah. No, I know. I kind of like went off in my own brain there just for a second. Cause I realized I actually meant to switch these around. So I want number one to be sustainable natural fabrics. That's their first claim. Cause that's talking about the, ⁓ this, the actual silk making process. Then we're talking about ethical production. And yes, we can get into that. And then we're talking about.

Kat (12:09)
Yeah, that's

Okay, let's start over. Okay, that's I'm okay. That's eco.

Okay. Okay.

Tiffany (12:29)
cruelty-free sleepwear.

So these are their three claims. First, sustainable natural fabrics. So a lot of people say silk is like natural, right? Because it comes from bugs, the cocoons of silk worms. So those cocoons are taken apart and dyed, spun, and woven into threads.

Kat (12:36)
Okay.

bugs.

Tiffany (13:04)
that they then use to create the silk fabrics. However, it's interesting because the Treehugger article that I read says that silk is one of the fabrics that has a bigger environmental impact than other natural fibers.

Kat (13:19)
I can buy that.

Tiffany (13:21)
Yes, because they have three reasons. So, silk production takes a lot of energy. So the farms, the silk farms themselves have to be controlled, have to control temperatures. Harvesting the cocoons uses hot air and hot water, especially if you're doing the normal process of, I don't know if I've mentioned this, but you boil them.

Kat (13:28)
Yes.

Tiffany (13:50)
We'll get there. ⁓ Hence the hot water, which if you're not boiling them, yeah, spoiler, that's what they do. They don't boil them. Anyway. ⁓ Yeah. I'll just say it so I'm not confusing everybody, but they, basically okay, normal silk, they boil.

Kat (13:51)
Okay.

Okay, that's the Ahimsa version.

Tiffany (14:16)
the cocoons before the worms have emerged from them because apparently through the process of emerging, it can damage the threads. So they boil them and then unwrap them basically and then discard the worms. The pea silk, they let the caterpillars grow into moths. So they let them actually emerge from the cocoons.

Kat (14:27)
Damage the silk thread. Yeah.

Tiffany (14:45)
They let them become beautiful mods. And there's a, I don't remember what kind of, I have it here somewhere, but I, it's like a very strange moth name, but.

Kat (14:53)
I'm

going to look at the silk mods.

Tiffany (14:56)
Yeah, it starts with a B, it's like bow something. It's a specific type of moth that it turns into.

Kat (15:05)
Bombics Mori

Tiffany (15:08)
Okay, yes, that's it. They're kind of ugly, to be honest.

Kat (15:12)
And they're apparently, ⁓ I'm,

like, somebody said they're pretty cute. Somebody called them a sky puppy.

Tiffany (15:19)
⁓

OK, hold on. I need to look at this better.

Kat (15:24)
I mean mods are generally they're not my they're not my jam yeah they're are they the ones with the

Tiffany (15:25)
⁓ I see. They are cute. They are cute. mean, yeah, mods

are, mods really are actually quite cute. Yeah. If you like look very closely, it's sort of like a jumping spider. If you look really closely at its face, you're like, ⁓ my God.

Kat (15:32)
They're cool. OK, sorry.

Yes, they're super. I have a couple

jumping spiders that just show up in my office and we hang out. Yeah. That little cute face. It's like the moth that talks to Gandalf and Lord of the Rings. Anyway.

Tiffany (15:43)
No.

Yes, yes.

No, totally.

so it takes a lot of energy to produce silk. It also takes a lot of water because it is dependent on mulberry, is a thirsty tree, apparently. And that can stress freshwater supplies if the trees are in places where there's not a whole lot of water. ⁓ And they also write.

Kat (16:04)
Right.

Does make sense? Like India? Yeah.

Tiffany (16:19)
Yeah, we've talked about that with cotton. And they need a lot of water for like the silk, to process silk.

Kat (16:21)
Yes.

Right, you're starting with boiling and then onward. Yeah, OK.

Tiffany (16:32)
Mm-hmm,

right. Also, the use of chemicals to clean and dye silk can pollute local water, which we've read about before with other, like I think that was even the bamboo fabric, was the chemicals were like definitely harming local environments.

Kat (16:49)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. Not good for the turtles.

Tiffany (16:58)
Yes. So there is certified organic silk, which has a relatively lower impact. I know, isn't it?

Kat (17:06)
fascinating.

Because the silkworms weren't fed GMOs, GMO mulberry. mean, it's like, how do you certify organic cotton the same way you do silk?

Tiffany (17:13)
I don't know, I don't know. I am, yeah, I'm...

That is a really good question.

Kat (17:24)
They're

very different types of textiles. I don't know. I had never thought about it before,

Tiffany (17:28)
Maybe they aren't...

Yeah, maybe they're not died. Maybe...

Kat (17:33)
Or they don't use,

or they can't use certain chemicals. Well, obviously they don't use insecticides because it would, I mean, they might, they might use insecticides because it, but.

Tiffany (17:43)
Yeah. There's also wild silk, which is really interesting. ⁓ I don't know if I talk about that later, but it's basically they collect fiber. Like they collect cocoons from wild mods.

Kat (17:58)
See that sounds

way more ethically.

Tiffany (18:02)
Yes. yeah, cause like, no, I don't know. The moths don't need the cocoons once they're done. ⁓ the fabric.

Kat (18:07)
Right. And they're not

stealing it from birds that Nobody eats cocoons that I know of. I don't know. I'm not an ecologist. Right?

Tiffany (18:12)
Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah,

I don't think so. But ⁓ that wild silk is actually, it's totally different is what people say because just the nature of the beast, it's just like a different fabric that comes from that. And it's like a yellow color and it's sort of, or like a golden color. it's more inconsistent.

because the, yeah, exactly. So it's really interesting.

Kat (18:39)
That makes perfect sense. Yeah.

That's kind of like wild apples versus farmed apples or domesticated. Yeah. The difference between venison and beef, know, interesting. Okay.

Tiffany (18:47)
Right. Yeah. Yeah, totally.

Yeah,

it is interesting. There's also, I didn't look into it much, but if anybody's interested in looking into it, there's sort of a new silk product out there within the last maybe five or six years called micro silk. And it's actually, they call it synthetic spider silk.

Kat (19:16)
Okay.

⁓

Tiffany (19:21)
It's so crazy because you know, spider silk is what spiders make, but we can't use that for fabric. Yeah. I mean, I think actually.

Kat (19:27)
Right. That's not, yeah, just beep, beep, beep, beep. I mean,

it's one of the strongest threads in the world. ⁓

Tiffany (19:37)
Yeah,

I think in my research, I saw this haute couture dress that was made out of actual spider silk. But of course, it's, no, know. And of course, it's just wildly impossible to pull off for any sort of market. So this is a man-made one. And it's produced from yeast fermentation.

Kat (19:45)
I don't wanna know how they got it, yeah.

Like.

Okay.

Tiffany (20:04)
using water, sugar, and nutrients. And somehow... I know. How does it... how? I don't know. It's like this whole crazy chemical process. Yeah.

Kat (20:07)
nutrients. I'm sorry. Sounds like it's a...

They can't tell you, as probably Barry. But

we live in the future sometimes. That's cool.

Tiffany (20:23)
I know. And so they made this

stuff called Microsilver.

Kat (20:28)
It sounds like something out of The Expanse or like a sci-fi show.

Tiffany (20:31)
100%. I'm imagining vats of yeast and sugar.

Kat (20:36)
yeast and water and they're like we

we brew beer over here and then we make shirts out of it over here you know that'd be amazing

Tiffany (20:43)
Totally.

Yeah, it's pretty cool. ⁓ And a lot of people are saying that's more sustainable. I didn't look into it. Yeah, mean, it's right. Yeah, there's always something. Yeah. But that's still pretty new, and I don't think it's mass produced at all. And I have no idea on cost. So yeah.

Kat (20:53)
You're not killing any unless you count yeast.

Anyway, yeah. Okay.

Or scalability, yeah. Okay,

cool, weird.

Tiffany (21:16)
Yeah,

so it's kind of interesting. ⁓ Now I was going to take a quick break, see.

Okay.

All right. No, I know, really. And I didn't even get into all of them that I found, but I got in. I did the main ones. So now let's talk about ethical production because that is the next claim that the ethical silk company makes is that they do it ethically. Go figure. Go figure. Not surprising.

Kat (21:41)
So many silks, so little time.

Yeah.

Okay.

and their name. What do know?

Tiffany (22:07)
So on their website, the ethical silk company says that they have an uncompromising commitment to ethical production and equitable practices. We firmly believe that everyone should be rewarded fairly for their work and skills and treated with respect. Anything else isn't an option for us. So as you mentioned, it is kind of a gray area in terms of sustainability because we're talking about like pay and money, but

Kat (22:23)
Okay.

Right, right.

Tiffany (22:36)
I do think, as we've said before, humans are part of nature and we need to survive. Yeah. And there's so much unfairness in the world that really it should be part of the conversation.

Kat (22:43)
ecosystem. Yes, agreed.

I

Tiffany (22:53)
So these, okay, so this silk is designed in, designed in Ireland, the UK and the US and it's fabricated at Fairtrade textile workshops in South and North India.

Kat (23:09)
Okay.

Tiffany (23:12)
Just interesting. It's just like interesting global dynamics.

Kat (23:13)
Right?

Tiffany (23:19)
But I'll get into one of the workshop I looked into is also really okay, it's, their workshops are fair trade certified.

Kat (23:30)
Okay, which we went over last episode, but you got different research than I did. So let's hear it.

Tiffany (23:32)
Yes. Yes.

So there are 10 principles to fair trade production and that sort of, and when they say that underpins our business philosophy, blah, blah, puts the human factor first.

Kat (23:48)
Okay, right.

Tiffany (23:50)
So some of these principles, the fair trade principles, are basically making sure the money trickles down to the people doing the work, which may or may not happen. We'll get into it. They also aim to give a living wage, but they don't really specify any sort of forcing mechanism. It's like that's the goal, is to give a living wage to people.

Kat (23:59)
Right. Not stakeholders. Yeah. Well, maybe stakeholders too, but.

We

talk about it and we drink tea over it, but right. And what's a living wage in India, certain parts of India versus a living wage in Ireland, right?

Tiffany (24:20)
Yeah.

Right, well it is, I think it's dependent on the area, yeah.

Kat (24:31)
Location. Yeah,

it's still, it's kind of like,

Tiffany (24:34)
Right. They also aim to pay men and women the same, so don't pay women less for the same work. No child labor, that kind of thing. Yeah.

Kat (24:45)
Important. It is important.

That is all very important. It feels like it should go without saying, but it's like, it doesn't. So yeah.

Tiffany (24:51)
No, sadly,

it just absolutely does not. ⁓ So like I said before, you can actually look up at least one of their fair trade workshops that they use. And this one's called Mahira Shah. And I looked it up and it's so interesting because

It just seems like business is booming for them. are not, definitely not, they have so many clients it seems like. It's not just this company. and actually this Mahira Shaw focuses on the wood stamps, so they stamp the silk with the design, and that's what they do.

Kat (25:21)
interesting.

⁓ instead of, instead of

printing it through a factory or what? Okay.

Tiffany (25:36)
Yeah,

so this specific workshop, don't think they make the silk, but they stamp it. That's like their thing. But then, so they have this workshop, at least one workshop in India, but then they also have basically like a boutique kind of, I don't know if it's an in-person, but they have like a business in North Carolina. And it's the same company. So it's all like fair trade certified, you know.

Kat (25:41)
Interesting. Okay.

⁓ Okay.

Tiffany (26:04)
their website they say lots of good words about how they live up to all of these standards.

So we'll get into now, just a little bit more about fair trade.

So research published in the journal Nature Sustainability found that while some farmers benefit from the price paid for certified products, some farmers benefit. The actual workers, the agricultural workers on the farm don't reap the same rewards.

Kat (26:37)
Okay.

And that's from years of it being, it like started out with good intentions by some hippies in the eighties or nineties and then trickled up as it always does. Okay.

Tiffany (26:50)
Right.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think, I mean, I've heard some criticism throughout the years of fair trade and it's sort of like, it's hard because you don't want to sit here and be like, the perfect is the enemy of the good. Because to be fair, the farmers are getting paid more than they would.

Kat (27:00)
I have also.

Right.

Right. Well,

It just always feels like excuses of colonialism, you know? Like, well, we've enslaved this group of people, but at least they get a roof over their head and a job. And it's like, what? You know, like they're getting paid something, but it's, I, there was that whole scandal that came out years ago about children, any, any unveined shrimp that you bought.

Tiffany (27:19)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Kat (27:41)
Like the frozen shrimp you go buy at the store was like.

deveined by children in Thailand or Malaysia and like in horrible conditions, you know, and like the capital excuses, well, at least they were making a wage, you know, it's like,

Tiffany (27:48)
my god.

my god.

Kat (28:01)
I get very uppity about

Tiffany (28:04)
That's horrifying.

Kat (28:06)
Well now all of our shrimp is radioactive, so.

Anyway, sorry. That's just the thoughts that go through my head when they're like, yeah, ethical practices and a living wage in a country that has historically been colonized and, belittled and demeaned just feels so, it is complicated. Like you're saying, it is

Tiffany (28:28)
Right.

Kat (28:34)
Anyway, keep going, please.

Tiffany (28:34)
Yeah, there there's definitely

some like weird global dynamics at play. It just feels a little bit weird.

Kat (28:41)
Right.

you're allowed to feel icky about it as a consumer, especially. And the deeper you dig into things, the ickier you feel about factory production in other countries.

Tiffany (28:43)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, and then at the same time, I'm thinking the people running that workshop are making bank, you know?

Kat (29:01)
Yeah, I was especially compared to their neighbors probably, you know,

Tiffany (29:03)
Yeah.

Well, so that's the other thing. It's like, it's very expensive to become Fairtrade and to maintain your Fairtrade certification. So not every, you know, small business owner around the world can do it. ⁓

Kat (29:08)
Yes.

Right.

Right. One, and like,

Tiffany (29:19)
Yeah, because I definitely read like some people say it's almost even, you know, you make more, but you're paying more. sort of like. Yeah. One other interesting thing from the corporate accountability lab, who I love, I didn't know about them before, but I'm like.

Kat (29:29)
Yeah, it kind of cancels itself out.

I think I might have to start looking into them, okay.

Tiffany (29:41)
Yeah,

I was like, that's awesome. they said Fair trade relies on what's called social

Kat (29:51)
Okay.

Tiffany (29:53)
These businesses that are Fairtrade certified are audited, but they're social audits. And what corporate accountability lab says is that social audits differ from financial audits, like your typical financial audit, in two fundamental ways. Number one, they are voluntary. And number two, they are market driven. So it's like these places are being audited, but it definitely seemed like a...

Kat (30:10)
.

Tiffany (30:21)
It's just to me not clear how, who's enforcing, if anybody. Are there penalties? Are there? Yeah.

Kat (30:29)
Yeah. What are the standards published so that like,

you can, you know, as a consumer look and be like, they failed on this accountability measure, that accountability measure, or is it just like,

Tiffany (30:42)
Yeah, or not even as

a consumer, but as like a business choosing which workshops and which other businesses you're gonna work with. If you're relying on the website, it has a lot of good words, but I don't know if you're really gonna find.

Kat (30:48)
Right.

Right.

All right, yeah. Are those meaningful words? Do they back anything up? And who's enforcing them? Yeah.

Tiffany (31:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, it's interesting.

Because like what I read was, yes, people definitely almost always make more money. Yeah, so it is good. It's beneficial.

Kat (31:16)
Are they ferritride certified? Yeah.

Tiffany (31:24)
However, yes, corporate accountability lab also says that most...

Kat (31:25)
Nuance, yeah.

Tiffany (31:33)
most of the social audits are not created or led by the workers. So that impacts their ability to change conditions for the actual workers themselves.

Kat (31:46)
and does it kind of...

trade out the need for a union, you know, which would be voices from the workers themselves rather than corporate bandaid, you know, well, we, we got somebody came in here and said you were fine. So by a global standard that you have no say in. Yeah. Okay.

Tiffany (31:51)
right.

Yes.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. Many say that direct trade is better.

Kat (32:17)
Yeah, I have heard that. mean, in terms of coffee, like Fairtrade certified in the 90s and early 2000s, they even said, you know, we don't we don't need for this company to be Fairtrade certified because we're dealing directly with the farm. You know, it's not a third party or it's not Starbucks or whatever, you know, like,

Tiffany (32:32)
Yeah, yep.

Yeah, exactly. So direct trade is a direct agreement between like a coffee roaster, for example, and a farmer. somebody who grows the coffee. ⁓ There's no expensive certifications needed. ⁓ These direct trade agreements also often pay higher prices. you're paying, you as a farmer will make more probably than

Kat (32:45)
Right.

Right. Cause you're

not paying for people to pass it on to a distributor who passes it on to a, yeah.

Tiffany (33:10)
Yeah, yeah. So it's really interesting. you know, so they say you form relationships. So you're like, in direct communication, you're working together, people being people. It's lovely.

Kat (33:25)
Renaissance

medieval-era trade pacts.

Tiffany (33:28)
Yes.

Yeah. a little bit of what I found out about fair trade. Because I knew I had heard sort of some criticism about it. Yeah.

Kat (33:40)
Grumblings, yeah,

which are fair and I agree I agree

Tiffany (33:45)
Yeah, so it's not perfect. It's not the worst thing ever. It's something. Yeah.

Kat (33:50)
It's something. But I mean,

I feel like I'm so tired of something. It's like, hooray. It's

Tiffany (33:57)
And is it just something that a lot of businesses are slapping on their labels, but it's not really doing much. Right. Yep. Yeah. And reap the rewards from it. it's, mm hmm. Yeah. I don't know. It's really hard to say. So I know, I know. And that's not funny.

Kat (34:02)
Yeah, because they could pay a fee rather than actually do anything. Yeah.

Yeah, and people trust it.

We're so disaffected and so cynical. We read too

much. Yeah.

Tiffany (34:23)
That's

the funny thing. It's like, I really actually expected this season for us to find some really awesome stuff. And we still might. There's still like one that I'm hopeful for one or two. ⁓

Kat (34:30)
No, I think-

Yeah. I mean, we,

I think we've just kind of found the man that is American capitalism.

Tiffany (34:42)
No, you're right. So far we've looked into quints, we've looked into packed, we've looked into sort of all the big ones.

Kat (34:50)
anything that you're gonna get fed on your Instagram feed, basically. And then they're meh, you know, they're mid, as the kids say.

Tiffany (34:53)
Yes. Yeah. So... Yeah.

Yes! my god.

Kat (35:01)
But

I think we're all kind of in agreement that American capitalism is pretty mid, right?

Tiffany (35:06)
Yeah,

Kat (35:08)
doesn't live up

to our needs or expectations. And it's just kind of feeding this group average idea that doesn't really suit anyone's needs, but kind of sort of addresses everyone's needs. Yeah.

Tiffany (35:25)
Yeah.

It creates needs that weren't there before. Yeah. That's brutal. Yeah. Totally mid. And this isn't even a freaking American company. Yeah. It doesn't even seem to matter anymore. So.

Kat (35:28)
Yes.

No, I know, they're European.

It's all

burning to the ground!

Tiffany (35:46)
Yeah, but I am hopeful for next week. We'll talk about that but

Kat (35:49)
Okay,

yes, I, yes.

Tiffany (35:52)
I think there's hope. There's hope. So, last and final, we kind of got into this already, but I'll just sort of tie it up with the bow. Circle back, there you go. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, That is that they have cruelty-free sleepwear, because I didn't really mention what products they have, but they have...

Kat (35:53)
I have thought...

Circle back. I like tight with a bow. That's a much better corporate euphemism than, okay.

Tiffany (36:17)
a lot of like sleep sets, silk sleep sets, have silk pillowcases, have silk... I don't think they sell silk sheets, but they have, you know, silk tops and dresses and things like that.

Kat (36:28)
Right, okay.

Okay, yeah, it's supposed to be better for your hair. Again, breathable like cotton is, it's a natural fiber.

Tiffany (36:32)
Yeah.

Yeah, that's whole thing.

Yeah. One thing they had on their website about the pillowcase, which almost convinced me, which it didn't, it was like, won't absorb your moisturizer. your facial, your face, yes. Yeah, it'll do the work overnight or whatever. And I'm like, my God. They know exactly who they're marketing to. It's pretty smart.

Kat (36:51)
All that money you spend on your face cream will stay on your face.

100%. They're like millennial women.

It is smart. It's very smart marketing.

Tiffany (37:04)
Yeah. Yeah.

So cruelty free sleepwear.

This is a quote from their website. They have a love of natural, sustainable fabrics where no animals have suffered in the production process that makes as little impact as possible on our planet. So yeah, so, okay, a little bit more about mulberry silk. It's produced by a family business headed by Rajaya Kusuma, who's he's in India. He's been instrumental in spearheading the production of mulberry silk.

in India specifically. So like I said, the silkworm completes its life cycle, turns into a moth. They do not boil the worms alive, which is nice.

Kat (37:54)
For our little

Disney souls, yeah.

Tiffany (37:58)
Yeah.

And actually I read that it takes about 2500 silkworms worth of filament to produce a pound of silk fabric. 2500 for one pound.

Kat (38:11)
Cheers.

So I

think this is the thing is that like there's a reason that like silk was prized and like special, you know?

And now we're just, yeah. And that like.

Tiffany (38:26)
Well, yeah, it's hard as shit to make, yeah.

We expect it in Macy's.

Kat (38:32)
I just wanna fuckin' Piliacus on Amazon tomorrow for my... You know, like...

Tiffany (38:35)
Yeah. Yes.

Kat (38:40)
It should be like a special occasion, royal, not royal, not that we have royals anymore, but like you should have like one silk item that you prize, you know, ever. And that we are just at the point where we're like, I need four silk shirts because they're in the season, you know, like.

Tiffany (38:51)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (39:02)
while.

Tiffany (39:03)
Yeah, no, you're totally right. think I have, again, silk is it, how the hell do you clean it?

Kat (39:11)
Well, if it's quince, it's washable. it's kind of, that's the reason I don't, I don't know a lot of silk, it's like, I'm a sweaty girl.

Tiffany (39:13)
Well, it's fair.

Yeah, same. Yeah, when I used to work in the office, I was like, always had pit stains.

Kat (39:22)
I'm not a dainty babe, you know, I am.

No.

Yes, my silk items look disgusting. Like I need, I should be wearing a cotton sack and-

Tiffany (39:31)
Yeah.

No,

I was going to say I need a men's undershirt. I'm jealous of them. I need one of those.

Kat (39:37)
Yes, I need to work in the... I

know. Oh, well, if you can camisole it up, baby girl. Like...

Tiffany (39:45)
Yeah,

but those aren't, those don't have the t-shirt pits protective, you know? Can't, cause...

Kat (39:50)
Have you seen the Japanese

ones where they have ones where you can stick in your shirts to like, project your pits? Yeah, the Japanese are living in the future, but they have like pit stickers that you can put. So like you won't sweat through your, you know, should be expensive silk shirt, know, smarty pants. ⁓ but no, I think about that a lot about like,

Tiffany (39:54)
No. Genius.

Yes.

That's awesome.

⁓ my god, that's amazing.

Yeah, freaking tank tops do not do it. Yeah.

Kat (40:23)
No, it needs to be a shirt.

I always wear a shirt under my nice shirts, you know?

Tiffany (40:27)
That's smart,

I should. I don't have nice shirts anymore, but when I used to go into an office.

Kat (40:31)
I know me neither. I'm hearing my jammy jams and you

know my sweatshirts. But yeah, like

don't do it. Yeah, no, I agree. ⁓

Tiffany (40:41)
Yeah.

Kat (40:46)
just gonna drink my hazy beer.

Tiffany (40:48)
Okay, perfect. I was gonna say, so the interesting and sad thing about the Bombix Mori moth is that humans have actually cultivated it and bred it for thousands of years because silk has been around since like ancient China. So because of this, they aren't able to survive very long once they do emerge from their cocoons. Not even though, because they can't see, they can't fly apparently.

Kat (41:02)
forever. Yes.

They're cows.

Yeah. I mean, but like dare. Yeah. So this is the thing. Yeah. Dairy cows, you can hunt with a hammer. mean, they're like, they're sweet animals and they're bigger than moths, but like we have bread. Well, yeah, but like we have bred all these animals to be for certain production purposes and it was supposed to be special, you know?

Tiffany (41:17)
And so they live really short lives, which is what it is.

Well, at least they can see, but yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (41:44)
For years and for generations, was like special, know, silk was special. And

Tiffany (41:48)
Yeah. Right.

Kat (41:53)
know, we've created an ecosystem that can't be sustained without our existence.

Tiffany (41:52)
Right.

Right. Can I have, I want to interject with a sort of positive animal, animal, wild animal, domesticated animal, human trifecta interaction. I just watched this really cool, Charlie's really into cheetahs and pumas and tigers and all the things. Yeah. So we watched this really cool national geographic documentary about pumas.

Kat (42:01)
Okay, please. Please do.

Yeah, she does a curl. Yeah. The big cats. Yeah.

Tiffany (42:23)
It's called, I think it's called like Wild Up Close or something. And it's a series and this one was about Pumas in Patagonia and they were having issues. The locals were having issues because they had sheep that they were raising and the Pumas, there's this like relatively large, but like not that big in the grand scheme of things protected area for Pumas. And it's illegal to kill them in the country now. It didn't used to be, but they, ⁓

Obviously the Pumas were still coming in killing their sheep because that's what they would do. know, there's like, yeah, like, duh. Yeah, there's like a little fence. They just jump over it. So yeah, farmers were killing them. They were killing up to like a thousand a year and yeah, like a lot. And it wasn't making a difference because other Pumas would just come in and take over their territory and then eat their sheep. It made no impact by killing them.

Kat (42:59)
that I mean, would you? They're easy, easy hunting. I mean, yeah.

Like, boop boop, yeah.

Jeez.

Tiffany (43:23)
They finally figured this out and this one guy led the charge and started using dogs, domesticated dogs as deterrents. And they're like big, these sort of like big, maybe, I don't know what breed it is.

Kat (43:33)
Pyrenees.

Pyrenees are

guardian, I mean they're guardian, that's what they're meant for, protect sheep and goats. Well, except they're massively furry, but something like them, yeah.

Tiffany (43:41)
Okay, it must have been them because they're like pretty big.

Yeah,

they are really furry. Is that what your dogs are part? Okay, yeah. You should watch this then it's so cute. So this guy started like breeding these dogs and there's such a demand for the dogs that he can't breed them fast enough, which could cause its own issues, right? But, but that's like, it's been a whole business for him, which is so interesting. But the

Kat (43:49)
Eee, one of them, yeah. Archie is a Pyrenees.

Hahaha.

⁓ no. Right, yeah.

Tiffany (44:11)
people doing the documentary actually sat out there at night and did night vision and watched as the puma jumped in the fence, the dogs smelled it or woke up or something, barked and the cat ran away. And it was so cool. yeah. And they said since they started doing that, farmers have gone from having thousands of sheep dead to one or two per year.

Kat (44:22)
heard it. Yeah. Yeah.

It is cool to watch. Yeah, Pyrenees do that. Yeah.

It's an old school shepherd's trick to have a frickin Pyrenees. I know. Yeah.

Tiffany (44:41)
Yeah. That's what I was

thinking. was like, haven't sheepdogs been around for so long? Yeah. And it was like, that was like against wolves, I guess. But I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

Kat (44:47)
Forever. mean since sheep basically. Yeah.

Wolves, are coyotes? mean, wherever you're raising sheep. But pumas

too, mountain lions, you know.

Tiffany (44:59)
I guess they hadn't gotten the memo yet, but I was like, this is so such a nice, like heartwarming thing. Yeah, because it's like this guy had a picture of himself with three dead pumas that he had killed years before, just as like a reminder of like, this is where I came from. But he was now leading the charge of like, yeah.

Kat (45:05)
No one dies. Yeah.

geez. Yeah.

And I've got all these Pyrenees. Yeah,

Archie tries to protect us from.

Tiffany (45:24)
You're his sheep. Aww.

Kat (45:27)
He goes to the fence and he barks and he looks at us. He's like...

Tiffany (45:31)
That is so cute. my God.

Kat (45:33)
Oh, it's

not cute at 6 45 in the morning when the first person, but he is, he's a guardian dog and he's very guardian dog oriented. Yeah. Yeah. He needs a flock of sheep. know it's, it's my first, we had a collie when I was growing up and he would like nip our ankles and try to get us to go places. But Archie is very like, he sleeps outside and he watches.

Tiffany (45:36)
well that's fair.

That's so interesting. I've never had one of those. Yeah.

Uh-huh.

Kat (46:02)
He barks. Well that and he's afraid of the heater, but yeah. But yeah, he does like that. likes, he has his little perch and he's looking for threats.

Tiffany (46:02)
that might be why he likes sleeping outside. That's interesting. ⁓ out there.

So interesting.

Kat (46:17)
anyway, okay, so silk

Tiffany (46:16)
Yeah. Yeah, it's cool.

all right. On to price. So is this something a normal person could afford? Boy, boy.

Kat (46:22)
Okay.

Okay.

No, absolutely not. This is special occasion, which is what, like I said, silk should be special occasion, right? ⁓ If we're being honest. Okay, please lay it on me. How much does it cost?

Tiffany (46:29)
No.

Yeah.

All right, so imagine a mulberry silk pajama set. Top and bottom. How much do think that's gonna cost?

Kat (46:48)
Okay, so I think L-Lonia, which is a place I have gotten silk pajamas from, or people have, there's like 80 for both.

Tiffany (46:57)
80 per topping button? ⁓ not even close.

Kat (46:59)
No 80 for the top and the bottom.

Oh honey,

you live in a fantasy world. Okay.

Tiffany (47:07)
Not even close. These prices actually blew my mind. ⁓ Try $360.

I like, that's a very nice gift. Like, I don't know who would gift me that, but...

Kat (47:26)
I guess. Again,

you need one if it lasts for 15 years.

Tiffany (47:33)
Right.

Kat (47:35)
maybe and you're got a really good sugar daddy. I don't know. Actually, that's probably pretty mid for a sugar daddy. That's a pretty, not that either of us would know.

Tiffany (47:36)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, totally.

No, no, And then, so there was silk pillowcase, just a pillowcase. want to get 128.

Kat (47:52)
90 bucks? How much?

I was so close.

Okay, again, but you can't wash it, right? It's all gotta be dry cleaned or...

Tiffany (48:04)
I

actually didn't look into how, I don't know. I actually don't, that's a good question. Cause I doubt it because that's whole thing. Like washable silk is like a new fancy thing.

Kat (48:15)
Well, and it's a lie, but yeah, I think. don't know. Maybe if you use the right fabric softener.

Tiffany (48:18)
Is it? Okay. I've never tried it.

To be fair, I used to wash my old... I don't... They probably weren't silk though, actually.

Kat (48:27)
⁓ always.

No, no, but I would wash all of my dry clean only item stuff. Yes, it went in the washer and then just hung it to dry and like hoped I could iron it. Yeah.

Tiffany (48:33)
All my work shirts, yeah.

Yeah,

totally. Mine still lasted years. mean, didn't, yeah. They weren't real silk though, to be fair.

Kat (48:43)
for sure. And that's not like.

Or I wasn't in a place where anybody was like coming up to me with a... ruler and like...

Tiffany (48:52)
Yeah.

Right, cover it with a sweater and you're fine.

Kat (49:01)
Yeah, like I was, I worked in the prison. I was overdressed for the prison. Okay. Let's be honest. All right.

Tiffany (49:05)
Yeah, okay. Yeah. Yeah,

that's fair. So no, a normal person cannot afford this.

Kat (49:13)
No,

this is abnormal. Even if you hit, just squinch your head to the left.

Tiffany (49:16)
Yes.

Yeah. It's a lot.

Kat (49:23)
That's a lot.

And okay, I will say that I do think that we undervalue textiles and that's what makes fast fashion stupid.

Tiffany (49:32)
We do. Yeah.

Now you're right.

Kat (49:36)
But

that is not a normal price. Yeah.

Tiffany (49:40)
Yeah, I mean it is hand stamped.

Kat (49:45)
fancy. Hence that.

Tiffany (49:48)
It is this special silk.

Kat (49:52)
And maybe worth it, but also not in my potato farmer land that I live in, I guess. Yeah.

Tiffany (49:54)
Yeah.

Yeah, not in my current life.

Totally. like I said, all right. Does the earth friendly message need to come back to earth? I think.

⁓ this one's a tricky one.

Kat (50:16)
That's hard.

Can you produce silk?

in a post-monarchy anti-capitalist, you know, like...

Tiffany (50:28)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (50:30)
I don't know.

Tiffany (50:31)
I mean, silk is pretty environmentally thirsty.

Kat (50:34)
Yes.

Tiffany (50:35)
Yeah, and it's also not certified organic, which apparently helps lighten the impact. So it's not that,

Kat (50:43)
You mean this is GMO silk?

Tiffany (50:49)
face.

Kat (50:49)
They're

fed GMO mulberries. The faces I'm making. If you're on YouTube, I hope you see them because they deserve to be Renaissance paintings.

Tiffany (50:52)
you

It's so true.

Kat (51:00)
That's my GMO. That's

my anti-GMO phase.

Tiffany (51:06)
that's amazing. Yeah, I also just hate the name. I hate it, but I love it, but I hate it, but I love it. It's like so good that it's so annoying.

Kat (51:15)
It's correct.

is like I wish every like that's why my personal brand is cat cox rider. What do do? I write. I'm a writer. It's not like magical unicorn. Like what do you do? Well, we produce sustainable. It's like now it's yes. Cotton candy for your brain. Like what does that mean? You know, I'm a writer. I'm a writer. You know, they produce ethical silk.

Tiffany (51:34)
Cotton candy, yeah.

Nutritious cotton candy. Yeah.

Kat (51:45)
Okay, they're

Tiffany (51:45)
Right.

Kat (51:46)
putting it out there. Great name. Love it. Hate it also.

Tiffany (51:50)
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

Yeah. so I think...

Yes, there are definitely places where their messaging needs to come back to earth. But I think in other ways, yeah.

Kat (52:06)
They're trying.

mean, it's like, again, if you're just going on quints and you're buying a silk shirt, you're not thinking about like how many silkworms died to produce this. Or again, their factories, we don't know. Like, are they paying Indian or Chinese or Malaysian factory workers to boil, you know, these worms to death and take their pods and produce? Like it should be a labor intensive, expensive process to make silk.

Tiffany (52:16)
Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Kat (52:36)
It should

be a special occasion item. And Quince is just like, yeah, got your wearable silk shirt, washable silk shirt, you know?

Tiffany (52:39)
Yeah.

Right,

I know.

Kat (52:45)
I think we're in a slow apocalypse.

Tiffany (52:47)
I know. Feels that way. It's crazy.

Kat (52:50)
Yeah. Where everything is just

twice as expensive as used to be. And we have to talk about like, is $350 silk worth it or should I buy groceries for my family for the next week? I don't know.

Tiffany (52:55)
my god.

Should

I have a heat heater that functions that I paid for? You know what?

Kat (53:06)
Yeah.

Or like,

Tiffany (53:10)
For example, our BG &E, I say BG &E as if people know what the hell that is, it's our energy provider.

Literally, don't use in the winter, we don't use electric. They provide electric. We have oil actually. It's like old school radiators because our 1960s house. ⁓ Yeah, well, it's yeah. So we don't use electric in the winter. It is the winter and we are paying $300 a month for our electric bill. It just went up like

Kat (53:23)
Right, you're a gas heater. you're oil heat. Okay.

Lead poisoning. Yep.

Tiffany (53:47)
It used to be like 80 a couple months ago.

Kat (53:50)
Did they put a data center in Thomas tree? Yeah, they don't, they don't, they don't tell you.

Tiffany (53:52)
That's what I don't fricking know. Cause it's like, I think so,

but I'm like, how? And I was reading about it and they had all this stuff about, this has gone up for us. And this other thing has gone up for this. And maybe it is like probably is directly related to fricking data centers, but it's crazy.

Kat (54:14)
I feel like with your phone bill, they have to list like every item out, you know? Like when you look at your cell phone bill.

Tiffany (54:20)
Well, they listed, but it's

really, it's just like the kilowatt hours have gone up.

Kat (54:23)
No, I

know. But like, if your phone bill goes up, they have to tell you why, but not your electrical bill, you know?

Tiffany (54:31)
Isn't that

crazy? And it's a monopoly. I have one option.

Kat (54:35)
it is?

Yeah.

The one in Albuquerque is being bought out by a private equity firm, which is like

Tiffany (54:44)
God.

Kat (54:45)
code word for burn it all to the ground, you know?

Tiffany (54:48)
God well I was just gonna say my somebody that I know who is also on BG &E does use electric for heating and they're paying $600 a month so I'm like that will be our summer that's what's coming this summer yeah

Kat (54:49)
And it, we can't, yeah.

That's insane. That's a mortgage.

And also, if you wanted to get solar or wind or whatever, all of those subsidies have been destroyed. So you're not going to get paid back if you get solar. also, so they're just

Tiffany (55:21)
Right.

Oh no, you're screwed.

Kat (55:26)
I can't even imagine. Like if you are working a minimum wage job as a single parent.

Tiffany (55:32)
No, I know.

How in the hell? That's what Joe and I are like, how do people literally how are people are affording to live?

Kat (55:41)
No.

Tiffany (55:43)
Because this is BG &E. This covers lots of places in it covers lots of incomes all over the place. And I'm like, how in God's name are normal people affording this?

Kat (55:49)
Yeah, that's a big circle.

Mine is $270.

in the past month, but that's including trash and water and

Tiffany (56:12)
⁓

Kat (56:16)
But yeah, in the summer it'll go up to 350. With the AC on, I don't know what it's gonna be this next year.

Tiffany (56:21)
Okay.

Not too shabby comparatively.

Kat (56:24)
No, I mean, I don't know.

My house is 1400 square feet. I don't know.

Tiffany (56:29)
Okay, yeah, ours is like 17, but...

Kat (56:33)
Still.

Tiffany (56:35)
No, no, it's not. It's only no, because it's like it used to be $80 in the winter.

Kat (56:37)
It shouldn't be that much more.

It's like your fridge has been running a lot.

Tiffany (56:44)
No, definitely not that. No, it's, and it's only in the last like three months that I'm like, Whoa, why don't we have any money? ⁓ okay. Cool.

Kat (56:46)
That's insane. That is.

Right, no, that's exactly it. It's like I can't afford.

I can't afford a $380 silk pillowcase because that's my student loan bill and then also my electricity bill. Yeah.

Tiffany (57:09)
Yeah. Energy. Do I need electric?

I was like, maybe we can live without.

Which is insane, because no, you can't.

Kat (57:17)
I've been, yeah,

no. Well, in Texas too, it's going to be 104 this summer, right? Like we already need the air, like, okay, I have it set so that it's like the air conditioning doesn't come on until it's 79 degrees in the house.

Tiffany (57:22)
Right.

Yeah,

I'm like 80 degrees is reasonable to have air conditioning on.

Kat (57:36)
Fine. Okay. Is it though? Mark Zuckerberg?

Tiffany (57:41)
No, I think, yeah, there has been some reporting on how Maryland, Pennsylvania, sort of this trifecta, and Virginia too probably, are being impacted by the data centers, for sure. How is this legal? How? Yeah, I know. Trump is like, yay AI, so clearly.

Kat (57:57)
What legal? We don't have law anymore. There is

Well,

yeah, but also like our senators are so busy, like fighting lawsuits and

Cochle, so ethical silk, kind of a thing.

Tiffany (58:13)
Yeah,

yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, ⁓ I didn't do the granola rating. Yeah, I gave it a, so this is, we do this every episode, basically like, is it soggy? Is it crunchy? You want it to be crunchy for granola? Yeah. So this one I said was like pretty mid. ⁓ I said mushy. Well, I said, I said two and a half. So it, yeah.

Kat (58:18)
⁓ let's do that.

You want it crunchy because it's granola, right?

pretty mid. It's a three. It's a you said mushy a two. Okay between mushy and chewy.

Tiffany (58:43)
So like,

Kat (58:43)
Okay.

Tiffany (58:45)
maybe I could give it a three. I don't feel quite good about it, but yeah, now you're You're right.

Kat (58:48)
They're trying.

But also

like, they're trying, but also like, we don't need so.

Tiffany (58:58)
Well, there is that. I didn't even think about that. ⁓ frick.

Kat (59:00)
I mean...

I don't know.

Shoot. Let's start over. Whole new podcast. It's been an hour and 11 minutes and we got to start over. We're do you need?

Tiffany (59:10)
100 hours.

Kat (59:15)
Why would you need silk for your, but it's for your makeup absorption, but it is, it is like a, it's a luxury fabric and it has always been a luxury fabric. then to make it a day to day, quotidian, non luxury fabric is a disservice to the trade, to the craft.

Tiffany (59:18)
Shit.

No it is, you're totally right.

And to be fair, they aren't doing that, but yeah.

Kat (59:41)
Right. ⁓ like maybe that's fine. If it's, mean, compared to probably a Louis Vuitton ugly shoe, this is super affordable. Not that I buy ugly shoes from Louis Vuitton, but you know, like

It's they're not saying they're accessible silk. They're saying they're ethical silk. So, okay.

Tiffany (59:59)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right.

You're right, and it is so expensive that not that many people are gonna be able to afford it, so less consumption in that sense. Yeah, that is so funny. didn't even go there. Like, do we need silk?

Kat (1:00:06)
Right, and then-

Okay, good.

Fair. Okay.

You did

though, you did. In a way.

Tiffany (1:00:22)
No, I didn't.

Kat (1:00:24)
Well, okay. I think, I think that this is what we've come up with though this whole season is like, do we need fashion? Right? And like fashion as an art, delightful. Fast fashion is a consumerist issue. Fuck that noise. Right? ⁓ I think that's what we're coming to the conclusion of is like, buy one good thing that will last you forever.

Tiffany (1:00:29)
Well yeah, that's true. Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (1:00:50)
that your grandmother would have been like, ⁓ look, she got a pencil. You know, like.

that's the point. Like if you're going to buy a silk nightgown set, maybe this is the place you buy it from and you wear it for the rest of your life.

Tiffany (1:01:04)
Right.

Kat (1:01:08)
And you treasure it and you treasure that it doesn't absorb your super expensive hyaluronic acid, niacinamide, vitamin C, whatever face cream it is. Like you sleep on it like this. Yeah, I don't know.

Tiffany (1:01:25)
Yes, and you know that that cream is working.

Kat (1:01:31)
I'm better.

Tiffany (1:01:33)
That was funny. That was good. All right, so there's that. What the hell are you talking about next week?

Kat (1:01:37)
Ha ha ha ha

I don't know. We looked it up earlier and I already forgot. I'm talking about hope for flowers. It's slow, slow fashion. Slow fashion. Yeah.

Tiffany (1:01:45)
No, I remember. ⁓ yeah, slow. Yes, slow fashion.

Yeah, so this is like a super small company and I'm like so crossing my freaking fingers that we're like, maybe, maybe this is, this is the shining star of the season.

Kat (1:02:06)
Let's hope.

Hope for flowers.

Tiffany (1:02:09)
Oh yeah, there is hope for flowers. We'll see. All right, sweet. This has been a longin', but a goodin'.

Kat (1:02:16)
It has.

There was really high ABV beer involved, so I'm sorry kids. Long and good and I enjoyed it. That's what she said. Put the children to bed. Yes. Put the children to bed and like us on YouTube. Like and subscribe.

Tiffany (1:02:21)
Yeah, longin' and goodin'. Long is not bad.

⁓ my lordy.

Alright.

Yeah, go check our YouTube out.

This is a good YouTube episode actually. You should watch it because there's a lot of faces and pretty funny, I think. All right, cool. Well, we will see you next week. Thank you.

Kat (1:02:40)
I think so, because there was a lot of faces.

Alright.

Yeah, thanks for listening.