Tiffany (00:02)
Hi, Kat. How are you? Good-ish. I mean, it's like we're both in the middle of like holidays, and that just brings up lots of emotions. But here we are. Right. Oh, Lord, crying about our quince sweatshirts. Spoiler, that's what we're talking about. So I am going to start off with a quote.

Kat (00:03)
Hello Tiffany. I'm all right, how are you doing?

Yeah. So we start crying. That's why.

Spoiler!

Tiffany (00:32)
from a podcast.

The fundamental conflict at the heart of the fashion industry's climate commitments is that you've got a business built on extracting stuff and producing stuff and selling stuff. The more stuff they sell, the better the business does, but the worse the environmental impact is. That's from the Business of Fashion podcast. One of their reporters, Sarah Kent, said that. So I ran into the Business of Fashion.

It's actually, it's a website and it's sort of like a, it's more than a website. It's like a reported journalistic site. I don't know what you call those when they're online. It's not a newspaper. It's not a magazine. It's yeah. And they seem like they have done a really good job. Like they seem well reported. They seem not, you know, too sensationalized.

Kat (01:18)
A media site, yeah.

Tiffany (01:35)
The only problem is it's a paid subscription, so I couldn't actually read most of it, but you can kind of tell from what you can gather without, and I listened to the podcast, so.

Kat (01:39)
⁓

Tiffany (01:50)
They were saying after the Paris Agreement in 2015, I didn't know this, fashion brands like Nike, H &M, Shein Adceen, and Adidas, they came together to promise that they were going to slash emissions in their supply chains and their operations by 2030. Shein!

Kat (02:13)
Yeah. Sure. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Tiffany (02:14)
Here we are. Yeah.

And according to the podcast, the Business of Fashion podcast, they are far away. All of them are far away from their supply chain goals. Right. Yeah. Cause we're almost in 2026. And this was back in 2015. So, ⁓ so they're far away from their supply chain goals. Some of these companies have made headway on their operations, but not their supply chain.

Kat (02:23)
It's five years, it's four years from now almost by this time. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (02:44)
Which it's hard, but it's also like, how much are we trying? Um, meanwhile, Quince is over here making this kind of statement. We believe quality products can elevate your life, especially when they're sustainably made and affordably priced. Here's how we bring you the best with minimal environmental impact. So, you know.

Do those two statements, can they work? Can they live in the same world? Let's find out. So can Quince be a growing company and also sustainable? We're gonna answer that today. Welcome to greening up my act

Kat (03:14)
Right.

Tiffany (03:42)
Alrighty.

Kat (03:46)
Whee!

Tiffany (03:47)
Woohoo! The most cheerful intro music ever. I love it. ⁓ All right, so if anybody hasn't listened before, I'm Tiffany and this is Kat. Yes, we are two technically like marketers. We work in marketing as writers, but we're also just normal people trying to figure this shit out. So... ⁓

Kat (03:51)
I know.

I'm Cat, welcome, welcome, welcome.

Tiffany (04:14)
That's sort of where we come from. if you're hoping to get some sort of like insight into the marketing side of green hooey is what we like to call it, then you're in the right place. So for Quince, I had just a couple sources. Well, yeah, a couple. ⁓ Yeah, no, I'm glad you did. You read it, right? OK, good, because I didn't. ⁓ So Quince website, obviously.

Kat (04:34)
I'm like, I added one in there. I read it. Yeah.

Tiffany (04:43)
The Business of Fashion podcast, as I mentioned, I have the link to that episode, because it's Can Fashion Still Meet Its Climate Promises? So if you want to listen to that, it's a really good listen. And they have a lot of episodes out, actually. It seems like they release episodes several times a week. And it's not all about sustainability, but it's about the fashion industry. it's just interesting, because I don't give two shits about the fashion industry. And I was like, ⁓ this is really interesting. I didn't know any of this. I use Good On You Again, which is a brand rating.

Kat (05:06)
Hehehe

Tiffany (05:13)
⁓ sort of like an environment, they rate brands for environmental impact. A website called Commons, they had an article called Instead of Quints, try these five sustainable brands that you can sort of see where we're going. I used another fashion brand, Totenco, their website, and also one article from EcoCult, which sounds nuts, like that sounds like an absolutely crazy website.

Kat (05:28)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (05:44)
But I'm going to ⁓ use them a lot because it was a fascinating article. So yeah, so we're going to use them a lot. OK, what are we talking about today?

Kat (05:51)
wow, okay.

and then we had Wirecutter, the New York Times.

Tiffany (06:00)
sorry, I don't know why they didn't show up. Yeah, wire cutter.

Kat (06:02)
maybe

I didn't save it when I edited it. Yeah, the wire. I'll make sure it's in there. But wire cutter from the New York Times, they had a full review of all of Quincy, not all of, but a lot of Quincy's products.

Tiffany (06:05)
No. Yeah.

Okay, that's awesome. yeah, they were they had a really good review of what the hell I did last time. yeah, the Hannah Anderson. So I didn't even think to look for them because I had that eco cult one. I was like, damn, this is so good.

Kat (06:25)
It came up in my

in my newsfeed or something on Google. So, yeah.

Tiffany (06:29)
there you go. Awesome.

Okay. Yeah. So we are talking about Quince today. So I feel like if you have, you have heard of them unless you've never listened to a sponsored podcast or you've never watched a sponsored YouTube video.

Kat (06:46)
Yeah. ⁓

Sean, Sean called them quince. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (06:49)
No, I know. We joked about that last week.

And yeah, one of the podcasters I listened to, the first ad that they had, they called him Keith's ad. think their brand was probably like, that's not how you say it.

Kat (07:00)
Yeah, I'm its quince. Yeah, it's

like well for 35 % of the US population it looks like quince, so get your acts together. Yeah!

Tiffany (07:07)
Yes, yeah, because what is quince? Is that a fruit?

Kat (07:13)
I just heard your child screaming. She's having a good time. ⁓

Tiffany (07:13)
Do you?

Apologies for

the background noise. They are having a blast. ⁓ It's bedtime and my husband is a ⁓ wrestle. They wrestle. They wrestle. That's all they do the whole time. So it's pretty cute. Yeah. And we have kitties now, which I think I mentioned last time. And so I can't fully close the door. anyway, they'll be quiet soon. ⁓ But yeah, they're literally like.

Kat (07:21)
Apparently. Yeah.

yes.

yes, we saw them.

Tiffany (07:45)
Kinse, Quince, whatever, I'm calling them Quince, but they are everywhere.

Kat (07:47)
It's quince, yeah.

I, if you Google sustainable t-shirt or something, Quince is the first sponsor. have, they have marketed that for sure. They are the first sponsored Google results. So.

Tiffany (08:01)
Yes.

Okay, so they know what their SEO then. I'm not surprised. So turns out they're actually a company. They are a San Francisco startup. They have gotten seed funding, which isn't really how they market themselves as like somebody, a startup that's gotten, you know, money from billionaire or I don't know who I didn't look that much into it. like

Kat (08:14)
Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah.

Tiffany (08:30)
venture capitalists. Like it's just so the opposite of what you would think it would be. So it wasn't, definitely wasn't like a mom and pop startup, low and slow and grow over time. No, it's a startup from San Francisco. Nothing wrong with that. It's just sort of like weird. ⁓ they claim that they give you high quality essentials, essential clothing, cause this season we're talking about fashion. I don't remember if we mentioned that.

⁓ shoot. wanted to mention we're probably, we're recording this before we release any for the season, but I think we're going to switch to Thursdays this from probably now on because it's a lot on Tuesdays. So Thursdays will make our lives easier. if you're, I don't think any, but I never even really pay attention when my podcasts are coming out necessarily. Some of them I know. So if anybody's noticed that's, that's why, but most people probably don't care. Anyways, ⁓

Kat (09:08)
Yeah. This may be coming up. Yeah. It's just too much. Yeah.

Tiffany (09:31)
So yeah, high quality, so they say high quality essentials without the designer prices. How do they say they do this? Low design costs. They say they use minimal packaging. They say they have ⁓ minimal corporate overhead. They say they do factory direct, so there's no middleman, quote unquote. that traditional supply chains have sourcing agents. Actually, they have a bunch of different

Kat (09:51)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (10:01)
costs associated with them. So sourcing agents, tariffs, warehouses, brand costs, store costs. But like the thing that confuses me is

they have a brand. Like, I don't know what they're saying.

Kat (10:17)
Yeah.

that's Sean likes to watch these things on YouTube where he's he's looking at like, wholesalers who go to trade shows in China and look at textiles and clothing and things that are for sale. They're basically white label. And white label means it doesn't have a label on it. Right. ⁓ And you buy them and then

Tiffany (10:36)
Where it's white label mean?

Okay.

Kat (10:45)
for your warehouse or whatever, and then you put your label on it. But it's made at this factory. So it could be the same thing that Louis Vuitton makes, but just, know, Louis Vuitton, but that's their ready-to-wear clothes. So there's all kinds of rules in the fashion industry about like haute couture has to be hand sewn by an individual in a fashion house, da da da da. But there's, you know, the ready-to-wear or the off-the-rack stuff comes from these warehouses and then you...

Tiffany (11:06)
okay, okay.

Kat (11:13)
add your label to it and then sell it in your stores, basically. So Quince doesn't have brick and mortar stores. So they might add again the label on it, but it's not the same as like Louis Vuitton putting the label on it and then shipping it to all their stores and then selling it. It's like they sell it directly from the factory to you.

Tiffany (11:18)
Okay.

Yeah.

Right.

Yes, but we will see. have some evidence that that may not be true. But that is their big claim, that it's like factory direct, direct from the factory to the customer. ⁓

Kat (11:39)
Yes.

Yeah. Well, ⁓ Yeah.

Yeah.

I haven't looked at your notes, but I would say like.

As an American, you might be thinking, the factory that's in the US, or they have one factory. That is not the case. They're factories in India. There's factories in China. ⁓ So you're still buying these products from overseas. Yeah.

Tiffany (12:02)
Mm-hmm.

No.

Right.

Yes.

Yes, yes. Okay, I'm glad that you're into this because or that you know like a lot about it because

Kat (12:23)
Yeah.

I've just, it's one of those things where it's like, I got duped because I was like, Oh, it's sustainable. And then I didn't look into it very much. I was like, Oh, damn.

Tiffany (12:35)
Wait, Quince or just in general? my gosh, okay. That's awesome. And I'm not happy about that, but I'm like, it's so, yeah, it's like, it can happen to any of us because you read their website and you're just like, damn, they.

Kat (12:38)
Quince is one of those brands that.

Yeah. No, I mean, okay.

Tiffany (12:57)
I will say, I think we have our very non-rose colored glasses on. We have our Green Hooey goggles on for sure.

Kat (13:02)
Yes. Right. Well,

like I ordered this probably before we even started greening up my act, you know? So yeah. And, and when you're like, you're like, I need office clothes. These look nice. I'm in a hurry. I don't want to feel like I don't have time to go to the thrift store and really like find something good or, you know. Yeah. It can be hard to. You're just like, ⁓ great. I'll do this. You know, this sounds great. It's it's.

Tiffany (13:08)
Yeah, right.

Yeah. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (13:31)
small time or

Tiffany (13:31)
Well, and I said

I wanted to order from them because this YouTube influencer that I watch, she doesn't call herself an influencer, but she is, ⁓ raves about them all the time and says, ⁓ my entire wardrobe is from Quince and all this stuff. And I kind of believed it. And maybe it's true, but she's maybe replacing her wardrobe every once in a while, but we'll get there. ⁓

Kat (13:39)
But she is, yeah.

Yeah.

Maybe she's using rent the runway.

Tiffany (14:01)
Maybe. You never know. So, okay. So yeah, those are the costs that they say that they're avoiding, but it doesn't make any sense because they have a brand. They have a very specific brand. You go on their website and you're like, you have branded. This is not an unbranded website.

Kat (14:17)
Yeah.

But I think it's the lack of the brick and mortar. Anyway, I think there's other things that come up.

Tiffany (14:23)
Yeah, but they're saying like brand

costs and store costs so they have them separate and I don't know branding costs a lot of money so

Kat (14:31)
Yeah. Well, I guess in the sense that... ⁓

I don't know. Like what's the difference between a J. Crew sweater in the branding, right? I don't know. I would want to see more details on how they say they save money that way. But yeah, anyway.

Tiffany (14:51)
I know,

same. Yeah, and they say, we revised, this is a quote, we revised every part of the traditional retailer's playbook. We cut out all the middlemen and manage every element of the item's creation ourselves, including packaging and transportation. I feel like we ⁓ got ahead of ourselves because it's obvious what our opinion is of them. But when you read this, you're like, ⁓ man, that is such a good idea.

Kat (15:14)
Right.

I didn't even know there was an issue.

hadn't thought of this, yeah.

Tiffany (15:21)
Yeah, like, if you can actually do that and save money and make it cheaper that way, that's so smart. And it's sort of like down with a man kind of mentality. Like, screw them, they're overcharging us. We'll find out how true or untrue that may be. ⁓ So, okay, so let's go through. I picked three, there are many, but I picked three of their eco-friendly claims that they're making. So this is from their website.

Number one, that they partner with responsible, sustainable factories. Number two, that they are straight to consumer. so that means less emissions and all that. Number three, they have high quality, timeless styles. The idea of high quality meaning you will be able to use them. Exactly, exactly. And they even say that somewhere. Like they want you to hand it down to somebody.

Kat (16:11)
it once and you keep it forever. Yeah.

Tiffany (16:20)
Keep it forever. Yeah, keep it for a lifetime. Right? I know. So, okay. So the first one, the responsible factories one. So they say they have, ⁓ they actually quote, they say, we partner with factories who have a commitment to responsible production. According to Quince, this means paying workers fairly. We're going to come back to this.

Kat (16:20)
Hmm, I've never heard this before. Yeah.

Okay.

Tiffany (16:48)
and doing their best to produce in a way that reduces damage to the environment. They have some like certifications on their website, right? On their sustainability page. One of them is the Business Social Compliance Initiative Code of Conduct, BSCI. Another is Worldwide Responsible Accredited Production. so these are two, those two things protect, they mostly protect like

Kat (16:59)
Right.

Okay.

Tiffany (17:18)
the ⁓ and the social aspect of their operations. But it's unclear how many of their factories comply with either of these things.

Kat (17:31)
Yeah, do they like list the factories one by one and no.

Tiffany (17:34)
Not at all. Nowhere. ⁓

Kat (17:38)
I'm actually, keep talking. I'm going to look them up online and see like, cause that was the thing you were saying about like you couldn't tell with Hannah, who's he, what's it, where, where the organic cotton was versus. Yeah.

Tiffany (17:42)
Yeah.

Mm Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

I didn't look through there. I didn't really feel like it was necessary, but do I'm curious. Because that's another thing they have a global, they some of their products, and it's completely unclear how many follow the global recycled standard. So it's like recycled clothing. But again, none of them say

And then, yeah, and then another one, I didn't even go into this because I kind of went into it last time, but they're like, we use organic cotton. We use sustainable materials, all this stuff. We kind of, we talked about this a lot in the Hannah Anderson episode where it's like organic cotton is considered to be better, but it's like the wire cutter called it. ⁓ What did they say? ⁓ robbing Peter to pay Paul. So it's sort of like better in some ways worse in others.

So anyway, I didn't even get into that because it's like, repeat ourselves, I guess. ⁓ Okay, so Ecocult, according to that article that I was telling you about, ⁓ they say that Quince has a nearly quote, nearly non-existent supply chain transparency. So basically they are not transparent about their supply chain at all, is what they're claiming.

Kat (19:12)
Yeah,

they so I was just looking at one of their items and it doesn't they list what country it comes from but I don't know how you would figure out what factory

Tiffany (19:24)
interesting, what country does it say?

Kat (19:26)
Well, this is a cashmere Mongolian cashmere crew neck sweater, right?

Tiffany (19:31)
Okay,

we're gonna get into Mongolia. Does it just say Mongolia?

Kat (19:33)
Yeah,

it says, ⁓ made with care in China and Cambodia, but that cashmere is sourced from goats in Inner Mongolia. Read our cashmere 101 guide to learn more about cashmere's origin and how to care for it. But that, yeah, they're, it's made with care in China, Cambodia. Okay. By whom?

Tiffany (19:40)
Okay.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yep, exactly. Okay, and this inner Mongolia thing is really interesting too. I'm gonna get into that next. I'm wondering if we should take, yeah, let's ⁓ take a quick break and then I'm gonna talk about factory direct.

Kat (20:03)
Okay. Yeah, we could take a break.

Okay.

Tiffany (20:25)
Okay, sweet. We're all refreshed now. Okay, Factory Direct. This is one of the most interesting parts of my research. So EcoCult, again, like I said, I'm going to use them a lot. They were suspicious of the Factory Direct claim. Mostly, mean, EcoCult does not think Quince

Kat (20:28)
So, we're

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (20:53)
Spoiler, they do not think Quince is sustainable. So they actually tracked one of the packages that they ordered and they looked at exactly where it was shipped and where it wasn't shipped. first though, some drama about them that's really interesting because...

Kat (21:12)
Okay.

Tiffany (21:15)
They wrote a review in 2021, which is the one that I used for all of this sourcing. And Quince sent a cease and desist letter to them asking them to take the article down.

Kat (21:27)
Wow.

Tiffany (21:29)
So Ecocult says that they reviewed their claims and found all of them to be true. And they said, you know, we had done thorough research before we published this. Yes. And so there, but they did it again. They reviewed it to make sure that it was accurate. And they're like, no, we're going to keep it up because in our opinion, it's all accurate. ⁓ So I found that really interesting. I was like, wow. They're...

Kat (21:39)
In fact checking, right, yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (21:57)
They're out there, cease

Kat (21:58)
Litigious. Yeah.

Tiffany (21:59)
and desist So they said when they tested this package, they said, our team decided to test it ourselves by ordering an item in June, 2021 and analyzing the packing labels. The product was manufactured in Shenzhen, but the tracking numbers show that the item was originally shipped from Taipei, Taiwan to San Francisco in mid 2020 by air.

After the order was placed, the item traveled from a distribution center ⁓ in Edison, New Jersey to the local destination via air and was then delivered locally by USPS. Yeah. So for them, they're like, that means at least this one item was not shipped directly to the consumer.

Kat (22:44)
Interesting. Okay.

Direct, right.

So they do have distribution

centers. Yeah.

Tiffany (22:58)
Right, right, exactly. So, I don't know, take that as you will, but I found that really interesting. ⁓

Yeah. And then another thing I think I have a little bit later that I was like, Ooh, that's kind of, that feels telling to me their response. Cause they actually responded to the article. And one of the things they said, I was like, I don't need to really read anymore. ⁓ but first let's go into the high quality time timelessness claim that they, you know, they have classic styles. You can wear them forever. Never going to fall apart.

Kat (23:18)
Yeah.

Tiffany (23:41)
Okay, so they're cashmere and I'm so glad you have a cashmere sweater. Hold it up for the class to see. There it is from Quince. Mm-hmm. And you said you bought it like three years ago?

Kat (23:49)
can see the label.

I think so. And I've watched it. okay. Wirecutter talks about this. Do you want to talk about the cashmere or do you want me to?

Tiffany (23:56)
Mm-hmm.

Okay.

Yeah, I'll real quick go over the cashmere because it's really interesting. ⁓ And Wirecutter may have mentioned this to you, but so on Quince's website, they say the actual material comes from the wool of cashmere goats. Literally it says this, creatures as playful as they are precious. I'm like, who wrote this? I found that. I was like, huh?

Kat (24:21)
Aww.

Yeah, not a vegan, but okay.

Tiffany (24:30)
Okay, and I don't think they killed the goats, do they? think they just have to, yeah.

Kat (24:34)
No, but I think

vegans probably would still be upset about factory farming for

Tiffany (24:39)
Yeah, it's like a whole thing. Yeah, well, especially there because what I was reading is that desertification is bad in Mongolia. So having more creatures means they're eating more grass, meaning it's drier and it's creating issues. So ecocult. ⁓ OK, sorry, sorry. I'm getting so excited. I'm like hitting my mic.

Kat (24:42)
Maybe, I don't know.

You're like flailing. Yeah.

Tiffany (25:08)
So they say they have grade A, they use grade A cashmere, which is the highest, the top of the line cashmere. And they say it's from Mongolia. And Eco Cult calls them out because they say it's actually from inner Mongolia, which is an autonomous province in China, not Mongolia, the country where cashmere is indeed famously high quality. So.

Kat (25:27)
Mongolia itself.

Yeah. And I think

they said that on their website now it says Inner Mongolia. They like updated it.

Tiffany (25:35)
It does. It

does. they like in their sustainability page or about us page, I read all of them, like how it works page or whatever it was. ⁓ it was on the cashmere page. I don't think they make it clear. They're not like, they're definitely like, no, they're definitely like, this is best of the best of the best of the best. Famously Mongolian, whatever. So I found that really interesting. And they say, Quince says,

Kat (25:48)
It's not straightforward. Yeah.

Tiffany (26:04)
We ensure cashmere is sourced from sustainable origins in order to secure top quality and ethical practices. That doesn't even necessarily grammatically make sense, but that's okay. So, you know, supposedly the higher the grade of cashmere, the more durable it is. They say their cashmere has to be hand washed, but they recommend airing it out and wearing it again, like five to six times instead of washing it after every wear. However, well, was gonna say last thing.

Kat (26:14)
You

Yeah, well, and I wouldn't.

Tiffany (26:34)
Lots of reviews say that their cashmere is very thin and fragile.

Kat (26:38)
It

pills, without even washing it. It pills a lot. And that's what Wirecutter was talking about. I bought this. OK, so I bought one of their washable silk shirts. I was like, I'm going to look super classy, because I was going back into an office or something. And I was like, cashmere silk shirt. And I was like, OK, this will be great. I bought.

Tiffany (26:40)
And it does that, yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (27:06)
one silk shirt, two cashmere sweaters, because they were inexpensive. Like I could get two cashmere sweaters for the price of one from J.Crew. When I was 25, I think my boyfriend at the time bought me a cashmere sweater from J.Crew. That has been dry cleaned. That has not pilled ever. And like I haven't worn it ever. This pilled like the second I wore it. It just under the arms. It's just it and like. It feels nice, but it's not. You know, it's it's not.

Tiffany (27:12)
Mm-hmm.

⁓

No.

Kat (27:36)
as it's not the high quality that it's not the cashmere sweater that Martha Stewart's wearing, you know, like, and the silk shirt didn't fit totally right.

Tiffany (27:41)
Right.

Okay, yeah, I've heard that their sizing is...

Kat (27:49)
The sizing, I mean, that's

the thing when you buy stuff from China, the sizing can be like, I'm probably a true medium, you know, or was when I bought it, I'm, you know, medium large and the sizing, was like, it was smaller, you know, it, I don't know. And I also bought a pair of cashmere joggers cause I was trying to be like, well, maybe I'll up my game when I'm flying. And the same thing, they pill so quickly, you know, I don't wash them often.

but they just pill the minute you wear them. It's just covered in pills. And then I just, and I've always kind of been like, I am too slovenly to have like nice things. I just, I'm, I'm a wrinkled mess. Like I'm not a high class girl, you know, like, so wearing a pill sweater makes me just feel like I should have just bought cotton. You know, why did I bother with this? You know.

Tiffany (28:21)
that is so interesting.

Mm-hmm.

No, I'm, I only agree, I did not agree with you that it looks like a slovenly mess, but I'm reading their, I'm just reading back on their website because I'm like, wait a second. They definitely said, first off, they say contrary to what may typically be, what may be typically believed, the thinner the cashmere, the finer the construction. I feel like they're covering their asses there. ⁓ But they said something about pilling and...

Kat (28:45)
no, I'm just...

Mm-hmm.

it's wire

wire cutter pointed it out in their thing. They're like, yeah, this pill just pill like.

Tiffany (29:11)
What'd they say? Yeah,

but I swear they said something about how that's normal and how it does that. Okay, hang on. Let me find it.

Kat (29:22)
Maybe I,

I mean, I feel like cheap acrylics do that.

Tiffany (29:26)
Right? Okay, gauge, blah, blah.

Kat (29:29)
Yeah, I'm just picking the pills off of it

right now.

Tiffany (29:33)
⁓ man, I can't find it now, but I swear. here. Yes. The fact is that all wool and cashmere is going to pill. But a few easy tricks can make a difference. Use sweater spray instead of washing occasionally. Try to wear it between washes, lightly spray and leave your sweater out a bit before putting it away. They literally say all wool and cashmere is going to pill and you say you have a different sweater that doesn't.

Kat (30:02)
I wonder if I could find it and look. Because it was so, it was like, he got it for me for Christmas when we were like, I was like 24 or 25. And I was like, this is too nice for me to wear. So I like, I think I've worn it three times and I had it dry cleaned, you know, once. I wonder if I eventually gave it away. Cause I was like, I never wear this.

Tiffany (30:06)
I would be.

Right. huh.

Kat (30:28)
We could pause this, I could go look for it and see. OK, pause.

Tiffany (30:29)
Yeah, I want to actually. How do

Kat (30:48)
You ready?

Still in the dry cleaning bag from Albuquerque the last time.

Tiffany (30:54)
my god.

Kat (30:57)
I have not worn this in years. I can't believe I still have it. I was just, okay.

No pilling. No pilling on this J.Crew sweater.

Maybe a little. Yeah, there's a little, but it's also 10 years older.

Tiffany (31:16)
huh. And it's not like noticeably. That is so interesting.

Kat (31:17)
It's just a nicer, no. I

mean, and look at like these buttons. I don't know. I'm, they're just, it's just a nicer.

Tiffany (31:26)
Yeah.

Does it feel nicer?

Kat (31:31)
It doesn't feel as soft. And that may be because it's been sitting in a closet for 10 years. It's just, and like the sleeve construction, I don't know, like, yeah, this is, so this is so pilled. I don't know if you can see it on the sleeves. Do see all that? Like this has like,

Tiffany (31:33)
Okay.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (31:54)
far less pilling.

Tiffany (31:56)
Yeah. So I looked it up and this is not at all a reliable source, but Reddit says, really high quality cashmere fibers are long and don't pill at all. Lower quality has short fibers and pills super easily. So at least colloquially, they're confirming what we think.

Kat (32:13)
Yeah, I think that's.

Yeah, I okay. And I think J. Crew is probably this sweater anyway. Again, it's

almost 20 years old, like.

just a nicer quality sweater. I'm not saying that J.Crew still produces nice quality. It says it was made in China of Italian yarn. So I don't even know where that cashmere.

Tiffany (32:36)
Right.

What kind of fusion?

Kat (32:43)
But it's just a nicer sweater, you know? And like...

Tiffany (32:46)
Yeah, yeah,

that's so interesting. So do you wear the quince one?

Kat (32:51)
I haven't. Again, because I just feel so kind of trashy with Pilled Cashmere on.

Tiffany (32:56)
Oh,

yeah. There is like a comb or something you can get, but yeah.

Kat (33:00)
There's a shaver. My ex-husband bought a shaver.

which... cool. But I don't, it's like, I don't want to shave my sweater's bald. It's just, it's like, it becomes a thing where it's like, okay, I'll wear this on a special occasion. Like if I have to go into an office, maybe I'll steam the silk. And the silk shirt, I like, I wouldn't have washed it. Like it doesn't look as nice. But that's the thing. I'm like, I can't wear stuff that needs to be dry cleaned. I just can't. Right. I know.

Tiffany (33:12)
Right.

No, I know, who can? Wait, so

this is the ⁓ washable silk. It doesn't look as good when you wash it.

Kat (33:30)
Mm-hmm.

Well, you have to like, it loses the patina, you know, the sheen on it. And it wrinkles so easily, you know, that's just silk in general. I'm always like, it'd be so nice. And I'm like, well, okay, this is bad. But I'll wear it like, and it also doesn't fit. So I bought it to wear like under the cashmere sweater, you know, and it's like the collar. It's like, have to keep.

Tiffany (33:35)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Okay, yeah, yeah

That's so interesting.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (33:58)
and they're the same, supposed to be the same size, like they're both medium. I don't know, it just wasn't, it's not as bespoke, you know, it's not as high class as they're making it out to be, I would say.

Tiffany (33:59)
⁓

Yeah.

Yeah,

that's so interesting because other people have complained about the sizing and saying that sizes are wildly off, but... Well, I am so glad that I didn't have to order from them. I was like, ⁓ you already did.

Kat (34:15)
Yeah. What?

Yeah, I mean,

it's one of those things where it's like.

Okay. The other thing that we were talking about earlier is that they are branching out. It's not just clothes. And I know we're talking about the fashion industry, but to me that's like, are they trying to be the next Amazon? they sell, they, yeah, they're trying to sell dupes of, the wire, the, the, reason the wire cutter article is interesting is they like reviewed the Quince exact the same version versus the popular version. That's more expensive. Right.

Tiffany (34:31)
right.

Right, yeah we said this before we started recording, I was like save that!

⁓ cool, okay.

Kat (34:56)
So like a fanny pack,

a suitcase, you know, and they're like, yeah, the Quince version just didn't hold up to like a way away is like the most popular suitcase now, right? And they're like, yeah, way has a return policy. Apparently Quince has like horrible customer service.

Tiffany (35:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

my god, this sounds like Hannah Anderson.

Kat (35:17)
Yeah, they ⁓ like their manufacturing department is like so siloed. People have talked about like that Wirecutter article was really interesting about like, in terms of the business, the front end marketing team and the merchandising team are like all completely separated from each other. So there's not it kind of feels like

the mill bin, the compost bin where it's like, they're like building the ship as they go. And it's like, those are classic problems with startups, you know, when they scale. But I just got an email today from them cause I, I ordered some shirts for one of my nephews. Cause I was like, okay, I think this is, I know this will get to him in time. And it's a brand that I can like kind of feel okay about. He needed long sleeve t-shirts. And I was like, okay, we'll get him. And they're popular right now. People are middle, upper middle-class people are like, yeah, by Quince, you know.

Tiffany (35:42)
Yeah.

Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Yes.

Kat (36:11)
Um, so I was like, okay, I'll buy him these. And they were, you know, 30 % off or whatever. Um, which is another thing I think they fool you on their pricing on the website. They'll, they'll be like, they'll say the cashmere sweater that's $50 was 148 and it's at 50, but, really they, they list at the bottom how much everything costs and it like comes out to $45. So it's like, it's always going to be $50. They just mark the prices cut because that's compared to a J. Crew sweater, right?

Tiffany (36:39)
All right.

Kat (36:40)
So you're, kind of get, it is, it is less expensive than buying like a Lands' End shirt, you know, or a J. Crew shirt, or, know, any of these kinds of brands that are supposed to last forever. Nothing does anymore, but these brands that are supposed to be, not like I'm wearing, this is a J. Crew shirt. My mother bought me 15 years ago, you know, and it's cotton and it is high quality. It's always fit me. I've, I've had it for, you know, they probably need iron it, but I've had it forever and it's.

Tiffany (36:45)
Right.

Yeah.

Right, right.

Kat (37:10)
This is fine, you know, it doesn't have any holes in it, you know. ⁓ So those brands that you kind of trust that you're like, okay, can I buy my nephew this and he can wear it for two years at least before he goes out of it or whatever. I feel like Quince is that, but also it's just like, it's not, it's like we're trying to fool ourselves that you can play the high fashion game, you know, at a lower price point.

Tiffany (37:11)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Yep.

Kat (37:39)
⁓ but yeah, the email,

the email I got from them today was for Tadanger champagne for new years. And I was like, you are my fake cashmere shirt provider, not my, not my champagne provider, you know, like what a suitcase for, you know, like, so it's just, again, the high fashion consumers attitude, you know, like I want everything to be lux and quality, but I don't want to pay for it.

Tiffany (37:53)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm, and they have a lot of that like everyone deserves quality kind of like branding

Kat (38:09)
And it

Yeah, which

I, you know, I love that.

Tiffany (38:16)
Well, it's more like

it's it that's that I agree with, but it's like everyone deserves luxury is sort of the feeling.

Kat (38:21)
Yes, it's

still an aspirational consumerist lifestyle goal. ⁓

Tiffany (38:27)
Yes, 100%.

And that's why I wanted to order from them, because I was like, I will feel, like kind of like you said, like I will feel fancy in my cashmere sweater.

Kat (38:34)
Yeah.

When I wear the cashmere joggers, the pants, just feel like I look like a Yeti. Like I have furry legs and they don't, and they're short on me. You know, I'm, I am five foot eight. So the medium size. Yeah. It's like my ankles are so it just, it's like mid shin, you know,

Tiffany (38:50)
yeah, joggers usually are... They're gonna be like up to your shins. Yeah.

Kat (39:00)
They don't look cool. And I wear them in the winter because they're cozy. It's a sweater for your legs. I look, I'm not going to wear it on a plane and feel like everybody's looking at me like, ooh, she got the cashmere joggers. No, I don't look put together in them. Because lounge wear is so hip right now. But it does feel that way where it's like, I want to look like part of the upper class. I can't afford to look like.

Tiffany (39:06)
Uh-huh. Yes, for half your legs, yeah.

Yes. Yes.

Kat (39:29)
part of the upper class. And I also want to feel better about what I'm buying and everything they say on their website. And I fell for it. I totally fell for it. Everything they say on their website sounds great. Yeah.

Tiffany (39:32)
Mm-hmm.

yeah. yeah.

And it like makes sense logically. You're like, ⁓ if yeah, I just cut out the middle man and that's why it's cheaper, but it turns out it's not that simple. And yeah.

Kat (39:49)
It's not the same quality. And

they, it's another thing I think we have to caveat also is working with international factories, they are held to different standards also. So who knows what they're even getting? I mean, it may not be that they're trying to pull the wool over our eyes. The wool may be pulled over their eyes. They may not be able to get straight answers on these things.

Tiffany (40:14)
⁓ I'm gonna probably answer that real quick. I don't know this for sure, but this is the scent I get. So, all right, so we sort of answered, so we like to answer like, is this something a normal person could do or afford? And it's sort of like, yeah, I mean, this is the more affordable version of high-end clothing is what they're marketing themselves as. So like, yes, it's affordable. mean,

Kat (40:17)
Okay, cool. Okay.

Tiffany (40:41)
Kind of depends on your definition of affordability though, because I remember I looked at the cashmere, I wanted to it was a cashmere sweater and it was like a hundred. Don't quote me on that because I think it was around a hundred dollars. And I was like, I'm, I don't want to spend a hundred dollars on a sweater right now.

Kat (40:50)
Yeah.

No,

sounds too, I mean, if you were again, gonna keep it and pass it down to your grandchildren and you were gonna look like a million bucks, but this isn't the wool trench coat, you know, that your grandma wore in 1945 that like fits you. This is like, it's pilling up and already I got a stain on one of them and I just gave it to Goodwill. I was like, I can't.

Tiffany (41:00)
Yes, yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

right.

Yeah.

Right?

Kat (41:22)
And it was pilling and I was like, okay.

Tiffany (41:24)
Yeah, yeah. it just, yeah, I get that. I will say, so I pulled a bunch of ⁓ the Good Trade website for like our initial sources when I was trying to figure out what we were going to do for the season, like topics. And the Good Trade had a review, quote unquote, of Quince. And it was literally just like, they're amazing. That's my new favorite. Every, all of this is my new favorite piece of my wardrobe.

Kat (41:47)
Yes.

They've gotten

so much lip service.

Tiffany (41:55)
I was like, who paid you for like, what is this? Because they're just spouting off everything they say off of their website. they're sustainable. They do this, they do that. They are so blah, blah, I'm just like, this feels weird. And then there's a bunch of pictures of the person who wrote the thing in their clothes. I'm like, aren't you supposed to be reviewing for sustainability and you're sitting here modeling? It just felt weird.

Kat (41:57)
Yeah.

Yeah.

That's why the Wirecutter article felt more honest. She actually, she had like a scene where she was saying that like she was talking to one of the fashion editors and the fashion editor started going like, you see how it's pilling here? And she's like, get off my sweater. You know, like she wanted, she wanted, she liked how it fit. liked, you know, she wanted it to be the high quality thing she thought she, you know, and they don't get to, they don't get to keep their, their stuff, but they had pictures of her with the, yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (42:26)
Yeah.

that's so interesting.

Okay, that makes a difference. Yeah,

that's so funny. Like shut up. I like my sweater

Kat (42:52)
I like my cashmere sweater.

And you know, she was a normal size person. So not like a skinny mini model, you know, she, she probably, you know, she, she looked great. I thought in the pictures. So there is that there is this again, like I want it all to be true. I want to feel good about, about, mean, and if I keep it as long as I've kept this J. Crew sweater and actually wear it, that would be the thing. But, ⁓

Tiffany (42:57)
Yeah. huh.

Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. I know.

Kat (43:20)
Maybe I'll put the J. Crew sweater on for, except it's 80 degrees here, so. For our next episode, it's 80 degrees here. Our air conditioner's been on all day. Yeah. Happy Christmas. Yes, for the record. Yeah. So, another thing, when am going to wear a cashmere sweater in Austin, Texas? But.

Tiffany (43:24)
Oh God, what? Oh my Lord. Oh, it is December 23rd. If anybody is curious, that's insane.

True.

Yeah, that is true.

Kat (43:41)
three days a year. Anyway, so you do want to feel, you know, and maybe I will keep the sweater for as long as I've had this J.Crew sweater and actually wear it and, the silk shirt too, maybe I'll actually iron it and bust it out of retirement. And, you know, I could do that and that could happen and, and I can feel okay about, you know, this wasn't fast fashion, but

Tiffany (43:42)
well.

Yikes.

Mm-hmm, maybe.

Maybe.

Kat (44:08)
I fell for the, want to feel like someone who can walk into Neiman Marcus and not care what the price tag is, you know.

Tiffany (44:16)
Yeah, totally. yeah, I was about, I said I wanted to order for them. So I was like about almost there too. Glad I didn't have to deal, like bother, cause it sounds like I.

Kat (44:27)
It's,

mean, it's not, it's not like it got a hole in the armpit the first day and I have to throw it away. It's just.

Tiffany (44:32)
Right, right, right. Yeah.

Kat (44:38)
Like maybe I would have done better with one of their cotton t-shirts or something, you know? Which I do need t-shirts that fit and aren't stained, you know?

Tiffany (44:41)
Right, yeah.

Right, I know. It's so hard to find a good t-shirt. I don't think they are the brand that I would run to. Actually, there's a couple others that I found that may be better, but.

Kat (44:55)
OK.

OK, sorry. We were addressing the question. This is something a normal, quote unquote, normal person could possibly do. More so than buying from J. Crew or whoever.

Tiffany (45:02)
Right.

Yeah,

they had, they're saying they had like on their website on Quince website, it had a breakdown of the different places, prices. J.Crew was like 148 for the same kind of sweatshirt or sweater. Everlane was 178. Naked Cashmere was 295. So certainly compared to them, it's more affordable. So.

Kat (45:28)
Yeah, but

it's still, these are ready to wear brands that like, these aren't haute-couture you know, you can find them at your local mall kind of, they're not exclusive.

Tiffany (45:40)
I don't know about Naked Cashmere, that might just be online, but...

Kat (45:41)
Yeah, sounds, Naked

Cashmere sounds like a, we should probably look them

Tiffany (45:45)
I actually may have put them on the list. I don't remember. No, it was like naked linen. Nah, I don't remember. Anyway, there's some linen company or silk company. I don't remember. We'll get there when we get there. So lastly, does the earth friendly message need to come back to earth? I think the answer may be obvious, but yes. Ecocult says, Quince's sustainability claims falls more under the rubric of an effective marketing gimmick.

Kat (45:52)
Nah, I'm good.

Tiffany (46:14)
than an authentic commitment to ethics and sustainability. And in some cases, its claims start to look like outright lies, which is really interesting that they went there. ⁓ And so the biggest thing again, similar to Hannah Anderson, there is zero environmental impact report. There's no, no, nothing. ⁓ I looked at Good on You, which I think they do a pretty good job. I would say it's not like perfect, but

Kat (46:14)
Yeah.

Wow.

So we have no idea. There's no transparency.

Tiffany (46:44)
they do a pretty good job of rating brands on they look at the planet and the people side of things. And they look at the animal side of things too. ⁓ Planet wise, they say Quince is not good enough. ⁓ They do not communicate sufficient information about this is overall they don't communicate communicate sufficient information about any of their policies, environmental or labor, which is obvious when you look at their website. Yeah, because

Kat (47:08)
Okay, that's fine. Yeah.

Tiffany (47:12)
Like we've been researching for a while and some of these websites have this stuff readily downloadable. So it's not absurd for us to expect this. Yes, there was

Kat (47:16)
Yeah. Yeah. Or they'll send it to you. ⁓ hello.

Ada just came in the room, sorry. Hi, Ada.

Tiffany (47:25)
that's

fine. Last object. I emailed them and I was like, Hey, I don't see any of this information on your website. And they emailed it to me. They like sent me their Google Drive document. It was crazy.

Kat (47:27)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Yeah,

yeah, excess to it. Yeah, that was crazy. Crazy. Sorry, I've got a cute puppy in my lap.

Tiffany (47:40)
Quasar. ⁓

You're good, you're good. Go.

Kat (47:46)
See ya!

Tiffany (47:48)
I'm actually surprised I don't have cats in here yet, but maybe they're sleeping, but they're crazy too. So yeah, exactly. ⁓ So good on you also says there's no evidence it minimizes textile waste in its supply chain. There's no evidence it's taking meaningful action to reduce or eliminate hazardous chemicals in manufacturing. There's no evidence it's taking meaningful action to reduce water use. ⁓

Kat (47:50)
I know what's going on.

But for how long, yeah?

Tiffany (48:15)
One thing that they do claim is that they have minimal packaging. I didn't even get into ⁓ that, they say they have minimal packaging and that it's all compostable, but it's like compostable poly bags or whatever that you have to take to a facility that most people, maybe not most, but a lot of people can't even access and or find the time to do. it's like claiming that it's compostable is largely bullshit, but

Kat (48:27)
Yeah. Yeah. Don't have access to.

Tiffany (48:43)
Technically, if you know that that's what you have to do, you could compost a thing and you have access to it. ⁓

The people side of things, good on you says that some of it, like I said, is certified by business social compliance initiative, code of conduct, BSCI and worldwide responsible accredited production, is RAP. It's called RAP. Some of it, but there's no evidence that it ensures that workers are paid wages in its supply chain or living wages, So they actually quince claimed.

Kat (49:19)
Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (49:23)
early on that they do that, but there's zero evidence of it. So EcoCult kind of, right, and I don't, I don't anymore with any brand, but EcoCult sums it up really well saying, Quince's unbelievably low prices, free shipping and return policy and deceptive sustainability campaign only further drive rampant consumption that exhausts our dwindling natural resources. ⁓

Kat (49:29)
Do we take them at their word? Yeah.

There it is. Yep. It's

just a patch.

to make you feel better about this problem that we're already perpetuating.

Tiffany (50:00)
Yes. And the wildest thing, I found this wild because I couldn't, working in marketing, I can't imagine ever responding this way. So Ecocult, they had this, they actually published the entire response to their piece on the piece itself.

Quince said, answering most of the questions you asked would divulge some of our competitive advantages.

That's insane. Like, no, it would not. Because so many other so many other good companies that are sustainable and who actually give a shit divulged everything. It's called transparency. It's not called like, trying to steal your ideas.

Kat (50:31)
Huh.

They're just very open about it. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, I, your sustainability as IP, I guess that's weird. Yeah. Hmm.

Tiffany (50:56)
is crazy. So

boo on that. Not good enough. That's where that sort of pushed me over the edge where I was like, okay, I don't really trust these folks. But so

Granola rating

Our, so each episode we do a granola rating, is like, we will think that you want really crunchy granola, but like that's the, yeah, right. That's the goal is really crunchy granola. ⁓ so we rate it from one to five. Soggy is the worst. Break your tooth off is the best. I love how I wrote this in like two seconds and we still are using it years later. love it. It makes me so happy. ⁓

Kat (51:21)
Sorry, Eric. Yeah.

I know. Where's the, I, those are, yeah.

Tiffany (51:40)
So for this one, I rated it at same as Hannah Anderson, two out of five. So mushy. Yeah. Cause I just, I don't think this is going be very pleasant granola to eat. Yeah.

Kat (51:51)
Okay, it's almost an oatmeal.

Tiffany (51:56)
This is a dang old porridge. So if you need new clothes, my takeaway is like, you could thrift, although there's a lot of stuff with thrifting because everybody's thrifting now. But if you need new clothes, you can try one of these brands instead of Quince, which I found from this website called Commons.

To be honest, I haven't looked into all of these, but you could look into them. So Toad & Co is one of them. I did look into them and they just sort of feel better. I don't know. It's like you get this sort of feeling from their website where they were sort of like a mom and pop small shop. I think they started off with felt hats like 20 years ago or something. And then they've grown over time. They're certified B corporation. They use fabrics like hemp.

Kat (52:40)
⁓ yeah.

Tiffany (52:49)
⁓ They have reusable packaging, which is pretty cool. They have a take back program.

Kat (52:55)
I like their sweaters.

Tiffany (52:57)
Yeah, and it's like, I just, I don't know, I got like a good vibe from them. And they are imperfect because they talk about purchasing carbon offsets. And we talk, we talk about this in length in episode 48, I actually looked it up. So if you're curious about carbon offsets, Kat had a really good episode about that and why it's sort of useless. But ⁓ so they're imperfect, but I do feel like they are a better option.

Kat (53:07)
Boo.

Tiffany (53:26)
and they have sort of similar styles. They are for sure.

Kat (53:30)
Yeah, they're more hippie vibe.

But yeah, so they're, but I like this sweater for instance.

Tiffany (53:36)
For instance Yeah, and I say if you need new clothes because people need clothes I mean we need clothes to survive, but we don't need as many as we usually buy But you know sometimes you do actually have to buy clothes Poshmark was another one that they recommended which is like a Sort of like thredUP, but I didn't look into them

Kat (53:40)
That's cute. Yeah. Right. Again.

Exactly.

It comes from time to time. A resale shop.

But it's not factory. It's direct between consumers generally. Yeah. So, yeah.

Tiffany (54:05)
Right. Yeah.

And Everlane, which I also am curious about because I have not looked into them at all. Yeah. I f-

Kat (54:11)
Yeah, I'm wondering about Everlane.

I feel like I looked

at some of their shoes at one point or something. They were like the last year's Quince, you know, like.

Tiffany (54:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, but I kind of feel like, yeah, and I'm like, are they actually any better? I don't know. I have no idea. But worth looking into, worth researching. If you see similar vague claims from any, really any brand, if you see vague claims of grandeur without any evidence to back it up, you're probably looking at some Green Hooey. Just, yeah.

Kat (54:51)
Yep. Okay.

Tiffany (54:52)
So that's all I had. ⁓

I found it really fascinating. I'm actually enjoying this fashion stuff, this fashion season, because I don't know anything about it. So I'm like, whoa, this is all new. And it's such a big impact too, because your fast fashion episode just blew my mind open.

Kat (54:59)
It's... I've... yeah. I know.

It,

yeah, I mean, it's, they have cashmere at Everlane too. It's just, it just opens your eyes so much to like how much.

We're geared towards just, it's like, why you have more than three sweaters or five sweaters, you know? Like, why do have to have a new outfit every day? Or, you know.

Tiffany (55:25)
Right. Yes.

Kat (55:34)
Yeah.

Tiffany (55:36)
I know.

I follow this woman on YouTube.

I feel like she could rub people the wrong way, but I've sort of gotten over it and I've, yeah, I like her now. Aids is in life is her channel and she talks a lot about minimalism, she actually, it's basically her channel is fully focused on minimalism, but I don't know, I kind of appreciate her take on it, whatever. She maybe is a little bit, yeah, like I said, just.

Check her out if you want, but I do really appreciate it because she has like, she wears the same stuff all the time. And I realize as I'm watching it, you don't see that very often. Especially, I mean, yes, it's YouTube, but like you don't see it on TV. You never see it from celebrities. It's like crazy if, I was just watching Selling Sunset and I wanted to vomit. I was like, you guys are so wasteful. Maybe some of it isn't stuff they buy.

Maybe their stylists pick it up and then they return it or something, but it's crazy. It's actually disgusting. And I love that show. It's coming from somebody who like, yeah, I know, I know. And that's part of the draw because you're just horrified at the fact that people live this way. Or jealous. mean, it depends on who's watching, but.

Kat (56:45)
Yeah, but I'm sure it doesn't. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (57:09)
Um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's interesting because I see this age is in life lady and I'm like, it just kind of made me realize how little you see people wear the same stuff. Not in real life. feel like in real life, sure. But, um, yeah. Yeah. And she's pretty open. She's like, I'm, I have no interest in having a giant closet of a little clothes.

Kat (57:24)
Yeah, but the aspirational stuff that we're looking towards. Yeah.

Yeah. I'd like to get rid of someone. I mean, obviously I'm kind of a hoarder here when I have my J. Crew sweater from 2006.

Tiffany (57:42)
Yeah, I love that though. I don't know. Feels like an heirloom.

Kat (57:45)
I might try it. I'll try it on at the end of it. Yeah,

it kind of is. Let's see. Well, let's I'll try it on right now. You want to watch? Here it goes. It's our end of the episode. can't hear anything you're saying. You probably can't see me, but it's probably going to be too small.

Tiffany (57:49)
Yeah, yeah, try it on later. See if it see if you still like it. Yes, I do.

That's right. I can.

Kat (58:04)
It has such a cool neckline.

Tiffany (58:06)
huh.

Kat (58:07)
This is one of my Jackie and it's three quarter sleeves too. I love boat necks. This was like, I used to fashion myself after the sixties. Well, it fits.

Tiffany (58:11)
you

Kat (58:22)
I'd have to, sorry about my hair, but yeah, I'd have to like button it and stuff. Yeah, if it's, it's just.

If it's... Maybe I'll...

Tiffany (58:31)
I like it. ⁓

What is it that's coming back?

Not boat neck, probably boat neck, but ⁓ my gosh. Yes, but there's another word for it that like J.Crew or somebody is using. It's circle neck, it's not circle neck, it's something. Roll neck, roll neck. Yeah, yes. Ugh, some of it needs to die. Some of it can go away and that would be fine.

Kat (58:41)
Cowl neck

⁓ roll necks. So like the turtlenecks that, yeah, it's the nineties you guys.

Yeah,

oops. Maybe I'll wear this. Yeah.

Tiffany (59:03)
No, I like it. Yeah.

I mean, in my opinion, if you're nervous about ruining it, it's like, is it better? Yeah, it's like, is it better to wear it and ruin it accidentally, or is it better to just not wear it?

Kat (59:12)
Why, yeah, why do you own it?

I used to wear it on like Christmas, so.

Tiffany (59:23)
It's like, ⁓ wear the use up the nice stuff. That idea. Nice dishes and uh-huh. Use up your candles and yeah.

Kat (59:26)
Yeah, yes, use your nice ⁓ silverware and your nice dishes and yep, I've been trying to do that.

Yeah. Cool. Okay. Well, as I try to get out of this.

Tiffany (59:37)
I have, yeah,

I have one single Christmas sweater. not, like, I hate having clothes. I really hate, I wish I could be naked all the time. Not actually, that would be horrible, but. ⁓

Kat (59:49)
Having to think about it sucks.

Tiffany (59:51)
Yes, and I have, I don't like to keep stuff like clothes. And so I'm kind of extreme. I wouldn't say I'm like minimalist in that sense, but I actually kind of am like I don't have a skirt. I don't have any skirts, not a single skirt. I have one dress. So it's a little great. It's a little extreme, but cause it doesn't fully work for me, but I did get a Christmas sweater, which is very unusual for me. I thrifted it and I am obsessed with

And I love it. And it's so stupidly cute. And I keep it in my drawer all year. Just sits there and I wear it on Christmas. And I'm like, I love this. I'm happy. I'm happy I have this. So yeah, it's funny.

Kat (1:00:28)
And you wear it on Christmas. Yep.

Yeah, it's great. Yeah.

I used to be really much more into dressing myself well. And I think as I got older and I gained weight, I kind of lost.

Tiffany (1:00:42)
God, the energy just goes away. I had like a period of six months maybe where I like cared a lot about my appearance when I was working in an office and I felt better. I actually felt like, ⁓ this is nice. Like I kind of put creativity into my outfits and all that. And then it just evaporated. I don't know where it went. I could get it back maybe.

Kat (1:00:44)
Yeah, I was like

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Maybe if I ever go back and do it. But I haven't been in a business casual office in a long time. It's like if I do work in an office, it's a casual, casual office. I'm like, ⁓ I'm the only one not wearing flip-flops. This is great. I'm overdressed when I go to the office, generally.

Tiffany (1:01:08)
I know. That is actually, yeah.

That makes a big difference.

Yeah. Yeah.

When I was working in the used bookstore, used to wear, ⁓ I had come straight from working in an office and I was a little bit older than most people. was like 26 or 27 and everybody was like 19. And so I would wear like night nicer clothes, like khakis or whatever. And everybody would always look at me and I was brand new and everybody would look at me and be like, you in charge here? I'm like, literally have no clue what's going on. You have to talk to her.

Kat (1:01:37)
Yeah.

Not a clue. Yeah,

she's the manager. She's the one in the shorts. Yeah, the ripped shorts. Yeah.

Tiffany (1:01:47)
Yes, I'm like she's my manager. Yes. Yes. Um

Yeah, it was so funny, but that's the last time I've really worn khakis Here we are

Kat (1:01:57)
Yeah. Man.

Tiffany (1:02:01)
All right. Well, this was fun. next. Yeah, go.

Kat (1:02:01)
All right. Yeah. Next week.

It's our hundred hundredth episode. So so we're going to have a we haven't figured out what we're going to do yet, but it's going to be some kind of retrospective, maybe.

Tiffany (1:02:07)
That's insane.

Yeah, like some sort of celebratory woohoo, we made it to 100. ⁓ my God, we should do something. That would be fun. my gosh. I love it. It's hard because it's like right in the middle of, actually we're probably not going to record it until after the holidays.

Kat (1:02:19)
Maybe we'll get a cake.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, yeah, so it'll be January. We'll figure it out. Awesome.

Tiffany (1:02:37)
I like it. Okay, sweet.

All right, well, I have in my notes here something to tell people to do. yeah, sign up for Patreon. We are going to have an episode about like, sort of just shooting the shit about the holidays and I have a really crazy holiday story that I want to share just because...

Kat (1:02:56)
Yes. So if you,

this, that'll be out by the time this comes out. So go, go check it out. patreon.com at Greening Up My Act Yep.

Tiffany (1:03:00)
Yes. And

yep. And thank you for supporting us. Bye.

Kat (1:03:07)
Yes, thank you. See you soon.