Tiffany (00:02)
Hi Kat.

Kat (00:02)
Hi Tiffany, how are you?

Tiffany (00:05)
I'm doing A-okay, I suppose. How are you?

Kat (00:08)
I'm good.

Tiffany (00:10)
Good.

Kat (00:11)
I was just thinking I probably should have made a latte for this episode. Pumpkin spice latte.

Tiffany (00:14)
yes, I am amazed.

And with caffeine.

Kat (00:20)
A little bit, just a kick, you know. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:22)
Okay, just kidding.

Yeah, I just, I probably could do that actually, drink coffee at night and fall asleep fine. But once in a while it gets to me. I'm pretty like, I think I'm so desensitized. I just drink so much of it.

Kat (00:35)
I,

you realize like the human body gets used to all kinds of things when you quit, you know, caffeine or something, you don't realize how like impact like, wow. Yeah. When I switched to tea sometimes I'm like, wow, I'm sleeping a lot better. Huh? I wonder why. ⁓ yeah. I mean, I, my aunt once told me like, there's so little caffeine in a cup of coffee that it shouldn't affect your sleep. And I was like, well, it does. Even if it's a placebo effect for me, like I'm very sensitive to caffeine.

Tiffany (00:50)
Yeah, it's true.

Hmm, I'm not sure I buy that, but you never know.

Kat (01:07)
Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on your metabolism and your sensitivities. Like, it's a very blanket set. I'm like, it's different for women than for men too. So anyway, yeah, maybe I'll maybe I'll ask Sean to make me one.

Tiffany (01:10)
Yeah. Yes.

Yeah, that's funny.

There you go. Yeah, in between. That's a good idea. I'll just deliver it.

Kat (01:23)
I'll text him. Yeah. So, yeah.

Yeah. Could you deliver me a pumpkin spice latte while we're sitting here talking about milk? Anyway, I just gave away what we're talking about.

Tiffany (01:33)
Yeah,

well, all right, you're going to get it real quick anyway. So I have a fascinating headline from 2023 for you. It says, Got Milk creators accused of violating federal law over Aubrey Plaza ad.

Kat (01:42)
Ooh, I can't wait, okay.

This one I did not see in my algorithmic based news in 2023. would love what is that sounds like something AI made up, you know, like, yeah.

Tiffany (02:03)
Doesn't it? Doesn't

it? It's real though. It's like, it really threw me for a loop. This whole milk episode threw me for a loop. I was like, dang, there's big milk, which I guess I should have known, but.

Kat (02:15)
Yeah,

okay, I knew I knew there's big milk, but how else could they afford an ad campaign with Aubrey Plaza in it? mean, but

Tiffany (02:18)
Yeah.

Which

is really interesting about Aubrey Plaza. I'm confused by her participation, but anyway, if you head to drinkwoodmilk.com, yes, and you'll see a fictitious product, Woodmilk, that claims to be 100 % all-natural and have zero nutritional value. It also has an FAQ. The question is, well, one of the questions.

Kat (02:35)
of milk, okay?

Okay.

Tiffany (02:51)
Is wood milk real milk? Answer, of course not. Only dairy milk is real milk.

Kat (02:55)
Obviously,

⁓ I see. Okay, so we're talking about the definition of milk here. That's our Miriam Webster pushes their glasses up and says, actually,

Tiffany (03:02)
Yeah.

Well, yeah, according to the Got Milk creators, yes. So this campaign was invented by the Got Milk creators. They're called Milk Pep as part of an official marketing campaign for cow's milk. But guess who funded it?

Kat (03:11)
Got it, yeah.

Okay.

big dairy. no, the USDA. Cause they got to sell milk, right? Cause they fund it. Okay. This is gross. Okay.

Tiffany (03:26)
the US government.

Yep. huh. Yes.

It's amazing. Yeah. So we will talk about that in a bit. questions are, is cow's milk a staple in your home like it is in mine, or have you switched to a plant based milk like oat, almond, or soy? I'm curious for you. Okay.

Kat (03:41)
Okay.

I drink whole milk, but I don't eat

cereal or I don't like drink a glass of milk sometimes when I'm feeling very childish, I guess I'll drink a glass of milk, but I usually just have it in lattes. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (04:02)
Yeah, nostalgia. Okay, yeah, same.

Are these plant-based milks actually better for the environment? And how much more expensive are they?

Kat (04:13)
That's a huge question. Yeah.

Okay, that sounds good.

Tiffany (04:19)
Let's find out.

Welcome to greening up my act

Alright sweet, yeah I- yeah yeah yeah. We'll edit that out right? man yeah so like I said this episode was really really interesting to research. I was like shocked by how much came up. Woodmilk, never would have thought about that right? So alright my sources run through real quick because I have a whole bunch.

Kat (04:45)
All kinds of editing happens. Magic. It's the magic of podcasting.

E1

Tiffany (05:11)
Woodmilk, if you go to drinkwoodmilk.com, it's an actual website, which is crazy. Mm-hmm. Yes. World Resources Institute, I use a website that it's called It's Nice That. And I think that is like an advertising focused website. Don't quote me on that. New Roots Institute, I use a YouTuber named Dara Denny, a fast company, Journal of Dairy Science.

Kat (05:15)
I really... It's still up, okay. In spite of... Okay.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (05:42)
the Humane League, University of Wisconsin, Madison, National Dairy, yes, which yeah, that makes sense. National Dairy Farm, Farm Program, it's an acronym, Farm Program. Yahoo News, Love and Lemons, which is actually my favorite recipe website, if you've never used them. They have a lot of vegan stuff, and I think, I don't know if it's all vegan and vegetarian.

Kat (05:46)
but she's state.

really?

Tiffany (06:07)
I feel like I've seen some random meat ones, but it's got a lot of really cool vegan recipes ⁓ and just really, like everything I've made from them has been so good. They're so good. They're really good at what they do. Yeah. And then Epicurious, I stole a recipe from there too. So, okay. Let's talk about the Got Milk campaign.

Kat (06:31)
Okay, the drama.

Tiffany (06:34)
⁓ So I want go back to the original Got Milk campaign because it's really interesting. So I think everyone in the nineties saw Beyonce, Harrison Ford, Taylor Swift, all of them posed, Jonathan Taylor Thomas, yep, posed with the iconic milk mustache. And according to Fast Company, on any given day, an estimated 80 % of all U.S. consumers back then came into contact with that innocent little question, Got Milk?

Kat (06:46)
Jonathan Taylor Thomas.

Tiffany (07:03)
However, one important part of this ad campaign was completely left out of that Fast Company article, was that it was government funded. It kind of blows my mind. I mean, it's like so obvious. Yes, it does. It does. Then it was kind of a unique one because we'll talk about how they done this for a lot of other things, but they don't usually hire all these celebrities. So it was different. ⁓

Kat (07:11)
Okay, yeah. It feels dirty.

Tiffany (07:31)
But milk consumption was down, so the USDA basically decided that dairy farmers needed a boost. according to the YouTuber Dara Denny, the campaign was about embedding milk into our everyday lives, which is kind of gross.

Kat (07:49)
Kind of creepy?

Yeah, it's like, ⁓ milk. Like, it's just sitting next to you. Hello, milk.

Tiffany (07:53)
huh. Yeah,

it's weird if you think about it. ⁓ So it's a well-known example of a checkoff program. And a checkoff program is a government campaign to encourage consumers to disproportionately purchase animal products.

Kat (08:14)
Interesting. Why is it called Check Off? Is it Check Off or like Check Off the... ⁓ Okay, but like not like Check Off the Writer. Okay. I'm like, why is it named after... I was thinking like it's something from a play that I just didn't know about. It's like, the gun, right? If you see a gun in the first act that has to go off, you know, it's it's embedded in your... Okay. Check Off Milk.

Tiffany (08:16)
I don't know. It's one word, check off.

Yeah, not like the author. That would be funny.

Uh-huh, no.

Yeah

No, not

that. I don't know. It started in like the 1920s or 30s. So I don't know what it's from. ⁓ So Congress levies a small fee on agricultural products and these funds are used to pay for this advertising or the marketing.

Kat (09:00)
So it's just kind of a cycle. Like you buy the milk or any agricultural product and then it goes back to, okay. So it's not like from taxpayer money exactly.

Tiffany (09:10)
Well, the interesting thing is that like the actual producers pay.

So they pay a certain percentage of like per $100 into the checkoff programs. So like dairy producers pay.

Kat (09:23)
Okay,

that makes me feel less gross about it. It's like the government was the agency like a marketing agency for them, which is still weird, but

Tiffany (09:31)
Kind of,

which is weird, but yeah, that is kind of what it's like. ⁓ Some dairy producers and probably meat producers and stuff are frustrated at having to pay.

Kat (09:44)
I think it also makes sense because it's like, yeah.

Tiffany (09:46)
Yeah.

Yeah. But the programs do work and they reap enormous benefits for animal agribusiness.

Kat (09:55)
well, that's kind of like, yeah, you're combining your, you know, some funds from your profits or from your, whatever to do something that you couldn't do on your own. yeah. Right. I couldn't afford Beyonce.

Tiffany (10:08)
Yeah, totally. Yeah, you're not going to hire Beyonce to... Yeah.

Yeah. So on to Woodmilk specifically. No, no, I know. It's so interesting. So this ad campaign came out in like 2023 and there's a nonprofit called... This is so strange to me. All right, get this. The name is Physicians Committee for Responsible...

Kat (10:17)
Okay. I keep interrupting you. have so many thoughts. Okay.

Tiffany (10:38)
Medicine. They are a health and animal liberation organization. Is that where your brain went with that name?

Kat (10:44)
⁓ okay. No, I was like

white lab coats and anti maybe like farmer regulation or something, but okay.

Tiffany (10:54)
⁓

Yeah, it's interesting. And if you go to their website, it's like they have a clear, clear, clear bias, which is what it is. But they filed a complaint with the USDA saying that it violated several laws. And actually, I think it could be true. ⁓ They said that these ads are false or misleading or disparaging to another agricultural commodity, which is prohibited.

Kat (11:03)
Okay. Yeah, an agenda.

Okay, although wood milk doesn't exist, so it's fictional.

Tiffany (11:24)
⁓

I know. So if you look at the Woodmilk-

Kat (11:31)
which I'm gonna do right now while you're.

Tiffany (11:32)
You should,

because it is so obviously disparaging plant-based milks. I mean, it's like basically saying... It's actually kind of interesting because it's like they use a lot of Green hooey terms, so I kind of find it funny and it's kind of, it's pretty clever actually. ⁓

Kat (11:51)
Okay I gotta say yeah

Aubrey Plaza's milk mustache looks like she just wiped cottage cheese on her. That's awful. like do you have that much hair on your- I get it because it's wood milk. It's supposed to be chunky and gross.

Tiffany (12:04)
Yeah, I think

it's probably supposed to be like splinters or just like sawdust on your lip.

Kat (12:10)
Okay, I

see what you're saying. It's 100 % all natural, really organic, biodiverse, zero nutritional value. Yeah.

Tiffany (12:16)
Yeah.

Yeah. And when you watch the actual video, it's like Aubrey Plaza says, I walked by this tree and I thought, can I drink it? So it's pretty clever. ⁓ But it was controversial, to say the least, because it... What are your thoughts on it?

Kat (12:34)
It is, yeah. Do I have to? ⁓

I love it as a marketing.

Tiffany (12:41)
Yeah.

Kat (12:42)
If a tree falls in the forest, can you milk it? Yeah, they have FAQs. Will wood milk cause paper cuts on my mouth? Do I have to worry about getting termites in my tummy? Does wood milk expire? Yes, but you have to pour out the milk, reassemble the pieces of the trunk, and count the rings. Okay. It's silly. mean, it's Wood steaks, wood bikes, wood veggies, and even someday wood wood.

Tiffany (12:47)
Is that what it says?

Yes, I saw that one.

Yeah, it is.

Yeah, but I mean, do think it is, ⁓ it's like kind of, I mean, it's definitely making fun of, ⁓ yeah, like soy milk or oat milk or whatever. And especially when you find out that it was paid for by the USDA, right?

Kat (13:21)
I can see that, yeah.

Right.

And by an agricultural fund that I would assume almond producers also have to pay into. So they would be mad that-

Tiffany (13:37)
Yeah,

I don't-

I'm not sure that's true. think it's only dairy. Like, real, quote unquote, dairy.

Kat (13:42)
Okay. I see. Okay. Interesting.

but they might have their own checkoff program that they have to pay into.

Tiffany (13:53)
Maybe? I don't know. I do know that plant-based milks are ⁓ subsidized. No, sorry, sorry, unsubsidized. So regular milk is subsidized by the US government. And we'll get into that a little bit later, which is why. yeah, so technically what people say is that dairy milk is always going to be cheaper because of that. ⁓

Kat (14:03)
Yeah. okay.

Okay. Okay.

Tiffany (14:20)
Another interesting thing is that, and I say this a little bit later, but because of the dairy industry, they couldn't actually put the word milk on oat milk until 2023. They couldn't call it milk.

Kat (14:35)
Yeah.

It was like melk

Tiffany (14:39)
With a Y? I've seen that.

Kat (14:40)
Yeah, or you're

like, Ami, okay, Yeah, and why, okay, yeah.

Tiffany (14:46)
Yeah. So it's like people, like the dairy industry is really fighting against plant-based milks.

Kat (14:56)
Which I get. mean, also, I think from a consumer perspective, like we don't have to specify dairy milk. We just say milk, right? You have to specify plant based milk. And so it could be confusing for consumers to have something called milk that isn't the dairy milk that is, you know, eponymous or whatever that of what we what we think, because, you know, like

Tiffany (15:06)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (15:22)
I'm just thinking of consumers going like, I have a dairy allergy and it's like, well, it's almond milk. doesn't happen. But it's called milk, you know, and it's like, I don't know.

Tiffany (15:31)
I could see how that argument could be made, but I also think it's kind of unfair because I'm sort of on the plant-based dairy side here because it feels unfair because that's how these new products become mainstream is by normalizing it.

Kat (15:41)
Yeah.

Right. They have. Yeah.

Right. And that makes sense. Like, yeah.

Tiffany (15:59)
Yeah, I don't know. It's really interesting though. But what I didn't... No, I know. I know.

Kat (16:03)
Yeah. I mean, I'm not on the side of big dairy, you know, I'm just saying I

get it from like a marketing and consumer perspective.

Tiffany (16:11)
Uh-huh. What I didn't like on the ⁓ Woodmilk website was that it says no nutritional value, which is like,

Kat (16:21)
Yeah, see that's a, that's not

true of coconut milk or almond milk or oat milk. They have some nutritional.

Tiffany (16:26)
Right. Yeah. Right.

And it's like clearly referencing plant-based milk. It's not like talking about just wood milk or else they wouldn't pay for Opry Plaza. ⁓ So they were also accused of using unfair or deceptive acts or practices with respect to the quality value or use of any competing product or of a competing product, which is, I think, like no nutritional value is disparaging the value. ⁓

Kat (16:32)
Yeah.

Right.

Tiffany (16:57)
And yeah, and that was like right around the time when they were trying to, when they were fighting to get the word milk on the labels of plant-based milks. And so this nonprofit is saying that that was an illegal attempt to influence policy.

Kat (17:05)
Okay. Yeah.

I see, okay. Yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe. It's not like a straight open and shut case, you know? I see their arguments.

Tiffany (17:14)
Which maybe.

I'm out.

Yeah.

Yeah. And interestingly, as of October 2024, the USDA has not made any public statements on the matter. Just ignored it.

Kat (17:31)
Well, who would?

I think they gutted their entire communications department, they? They don't exist anymore.

Tiffany (17:35)
Well, this is true and probably legal team.

Yeah, because I was about a year ago. ⁓

Well, to be fair, was a lot and that was under Biden, but.

Kat (17:48)
Yeah, but like the website's still up so clearly there hasn't been a... Okay hang on. No, it says pumpkin spice on it. We are getting a pumpkin spice latte tonight. It's like the middle shelf in the pea section. I alphabetized the spices and they're still... Every time we open the door they'd like get jangled around or fall out and so it's like that was nonsense, but anyway.

Tiffany (17:53)
No, no, they don't care.

in the P section.

⁓ no.

That's awesome. With whole milk, I'm guessing. Yeah, same. ⁓ I was using oat milk for a little while, and then I think we talked about it. Yeah.

Kat (18:13)
Sorry. That's all I got.

We have, we have talked about this. I

do want to, and maybe I should save this for the veganism episode, but I hate when, not hate, it does irk me a little when plant-based products try to, I don't want to say co-opt, but use the name of, it's like plant-based chicken. It's like, can we call it something else? know, like plant-based milk also kind of, cause it's like milk.

Yeah, we know milk is dairy and I know that that's you were just saying like we can redefine the term but like

I don't know. I'm just like, why do we always have to be imitating? Why can't plants just be plants? You know? And I do get that it's supposed to be like a replacement, it's also like, but you also want to highlight the differences between dairy milk, regular unquote, regular milk and plant-based milk. like maybe calling it something else is it, it's, it's like one of those like, I'm a, yeah, I'm a, I'm a cranky old lady and it bothers me when.

Tiffany (19:04)
Mm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Right.

It's definitely a marketing ploy.

Kat (19:30)
I'm just like, can't vegan foods, like why does it have to be an impossible burger, you know, or impossible chicken or yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (19:35)
Yeah, yeah, why do we need vegan chicken nuggets?

No, I get that. That's a very good argument there. Yeah, I don't know why it's annoying.

Kat (19:42)
So, okay.

Yeah. Anyway,

I guess to me, I mean, makes, I think it's my marketing brain is like, yes, it makes sense. You want to co-op that phrase because you're trying to break into that market, right? You're trying to break into the milk market. But at the same time, it's like, why do we have to be ashamed that it's plant-based? You know, like.

Tiffany (20:00)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

yeah, totally. Yeah, it's sort of, yeah.

Kat (20:11)
And why, yeah,

why does every vegan processed product have to be compared to the meat that it's supposed to replace? I mean, I get it from a marketing standpoint, but from like a logical human standpoint, it's like, but I want to be eating more vegetables. Why do I have to pretend it's meat? know, like, anyway, I don't know. Right. Yeah.

Tiffany (20:29)
Yeah.

Yeah, because it still puts meat on a pedestal.

Kat (20:37)
I think, yeah, I think you put it exactly right. still puts the dairy is the winner here. So we're trying to imitate the dairy, right? Well, why can't you be a winner on different grounds, you know?

Tiffany (20:43)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

it's really interesting.

Kat (20:50)
but

okay, yeah, something to think about.

Tiffany (20:52)
That's intriguing. Yeah.

⁓ Also, I just realized I forgot to mention that I was supposed, I know that I was supposed to do microplastics today. It was too much. Yeah, I was supposed to do, this episode was supposed to be about microplastics, which is what I said last week. ⁓ But, ⁓

Kat (21:03)
They're too much. They're too much.

Tiffany (21:15)
I want to do it well and the research is pretty intense. I was like, shwap.

Kat (21:21)
Do you think it needs to be a two parter?

Tiffany (21:27)
I think because we've already done so much on the plastic in general, then no. But maybe I will, once I've actually finished the research, I will change my mind. Yeah. God. I wish I remembered how long my plastics notes were. They were long. That was crass. Okay. Well, that's really interesting. All right. Let's take a quick pause and then.

Kat (21:30)
Mm-hmm. Okay.

when it's like 40 pages of notes.

Yeah.

Okay.

Wow, it's been 20 minutes already. Jeez.

Tiffany (21:57)
I

know, because I think I'm about halfway. Malk. And then I will talk about, ⁓ is cow's milk unethical?

Kat (22:00)
Okay, talking about talking about milk.

Wow, okay, you went there, okay. As I made my boyfriend make me a whole milk latte, I'm just gonna sit there and be like.

Tiffany (22:12)
I'm going there.

You're fine. I drink it every day. yeah. Break time.

Kat (22:26)
Okay.

Okay.

Tiffany (22:49)
Okie dokie. Ok, so, do you have your latte yet?

Kat (22:50)
sweet.

No, no, I can hear him making it. It'll be delivered right after you tell me that I'm a bad person for drinking cow's milk.

Tiffany (22:56)
⁓

So good.

Kat (23:03)
It's okay,

I also speed sometimes and I don't always use my turn signal. I know I'm a bad person.

Tiffany (23:06)
You know, you know,

my God, have you watched while we wait, have you watched? ⁓ not sorry, sorry, I haven't seen that one. It's called everyone had been talking about it. It's been like, this is a little bit out of the zeitgeist at this point, a couple of weeks. You know, it's a little, a of weeks old. ⁓ unknown number on Netflix. It's about the catfish and the high school catfish case.

Kat (23:13)
No. I was like, is that a movie while we wait? Huh?

Alright, it's old news, yeah.

No, I have f-

I have heard

about it. Okay.

Tiffany (23:39)
Well, when you watch it, we'll have to talk about it because yes, it is, I will say really disturbing. Like more than you would expect from a catfishing story. Yeah, it's crazy. And I do think, I think the producers made some flubs, but you know, yeah, it's worth, it's worth watching. I wouldn't watch it again because it was so depressing to me, but ⁓ yeah, I.

Kat (23:40)
Is it true crime? Okay.

Yeah. Okay.

Okay, I'll add it to the list.

great. So I'll follow

it up with a Great British Baking Show. OK. Yes. And then the juniors between.

Tiffany (24:10)
Yes, absolutely. Are you watching the new season?

is that- is there a new one?

Kat (24:19)
I don't think so. may have already- this is the thing, I've watched so much Great British, but I'm just- I don't think I'd watch the juniors. So, these kids that I'm watching now who are 15, 9 to 15, which is a really interesting age range if you think about it. maybe 8 to 10 and 11 to 14, right? It's not-

Tiffany (24:21)
just, I see.

doing it again. Okay.

Okay. Uh-huh.

Yeah, if you're nine versus 15. Although,

well, yeah, I was going to say, have you watched MasterChef Junior? Honestly, one of the best shows out there. So cute.

Kat (24:49)
No. Yeah.

It's just the kids are ridiculous. They're so funny Like the little ones can't reach the further like can you open the fridge for me? And they drop everything and they're just covered in food coloring even when they didn't need food coloring

Tiffany (24:58)
I know and some of them are like, yes. Yes. I love it so much.

How did you get that?

Kat (25:11)
I needed that in my life. I needed that.

Tiffany (25:13)
Yes.

no, it's so- I think MasterChef Junior is better even. It's so good. And some of them are like four or five, like Charlie's age, and they're like cooking full meals. And then some of them are 11. And you're like, obviously the 11 year old wins, but yeah.

Kat (25:23)
What?

That's not fair. Well, that's it. Yeah, I'm

like the 15 year olds are just dunking on the nine year olds, but they, you know, they're very sweet to each other.

Tiffany (25:34)
Yes. Mm-hmm.

It's so cute. my gosh.

Kat (25:37)
And it's like,

obviously the 15 year olds are like, I have a home garden and a life plan. And then nine year olds are like, I love my bunny snuffy. And yeah, it's just, it's really funny.

Tiffany (25:44)
Yeah, and a resume.

⁓

I might have to go back and watch that again because it's been years since I've seen it. So it's so cute Mm-hmm

Kat (25:56)
Yeah, it's, it's, it's just the lightness that I need. And like, the

judges have to be like, this was a really good effort, you know, and it's all in

Tiffany (26:04)
Yeah, because isn't

Paul Hollywood in it and he's like super nice.

Kat (26:06)
In the first half of the first one, yeah. Or the one that I watched, yeah.

Tiffany (26:11)
yeah, that's right. then it's other people. Yeah, cause Gordon Ramsay judges the, the master chef. Yes. It's so cute.

Kat (26:12)
Yeah. I've seen the differences between Gordon Ramsay and his own

kitchen and then like, you're a smart and wonderful little child. And he doesn't use any curse words and he lets them cry. Yeah.

Tiffany (26:27)
No. Yeah, he gives him hugs.

It's so sweet. Yeah, so funny. All right, well, Sean's taking forever. Just kidding. So OK, so is cow's milk unethical? Yeah. So critics of cow's milk highlight common practices like, I have three of them, early separation of calves from mothers.

Kat (26:35)
Anyway, so milk. Okay. Yeah, I know.

Okay, here goes. Brace myself.

Tiffany (26:56)
and separation of male calves and potentially painful procedures like dehorning. ⁓ So I real quick want to get into each of those. So early separation is basically a cow... I never thought of this and when I first heard it, it annoyed the shit out of me that somebody was talking about it, but actually it's like one of those worms that has just stuck in my brain.

Kat (27:09)
Okay.

Tiffany (27:24)
And I'm like, that is actually really, ⁓ you got it. You got it. Noise. But it's one of those like, you know, like worms where you hear it and you think the person is being too extreme. Has this ever happened to you where you're like, that's crazy? Yeah. And then you're like, wait a minute. And you can't stop thinking about it. That is something I can't stop thinking about. it?

Kat (27:30)
Love you. Okay.

Yes, that's impossible. Yeah.

Tiffany (27:54)
A cow only produces milk because she has a baby. And that calf is usually taken away really early. And that causes suffering. That is just a fact. ⁓ Some people say it's beneficial to the cow and the calf for health reasons. Others argue that it's inhumane. ⁓ Interestingly, I googled this because I was like, is it beneficial? Is there any benefit to it?

Kat (28:05)
Right. Yeah.

How? Yeah, like

what is the benefit? Okay.

Tiffany (28:23)
Yeah,

yeah, there's like a bunch of stuff that like, people say certain diseases and certain whatever is less when you separate. According to the Journal of Dairy Science, they did a massive peer review, literature, peer, they looked at like all the literature on this. And there's no consistent evidence that early separation helps with health in any way.

Kat (28:43)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. I believe that. It doesn't help with human. I mean, again, yeah. But any mammal. Like there's a reason you nurse for a certain amount of time for a reason.

Tiffany (28:51)
Yeah.

No, I can't imagine. my God. Right.

Yes, exactly. And the separation of male calves happens like really soon after birth, sadly, because male calves and dairy farms are useless. I know. I know. So they're often either killed on the farm, they're sent off for veal production, or they are sold to be reared for beef. So there's that. And then.

Kat (29:14)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (29:31)
dehorning or it's also called disbudding. ⁓ Pretty brutal. They basically they destroy the horn cells with either a hot iron or caustic paste to prevent, they say it's to prevent injury or in and also increase their financial gain because if a cow has horns and they bruise each other, you can't sell that for beef. This is more like a beef thing. ⁓ But they do it because female cows can also grow horns.

Kat (29:44)
Okay.

⁓ Okay.

Yeah.

Tiffany (30:00)
So they do it for female cows as well. It's usually done before six weeks of age. ⁓ You're not legally required to give them a sedative or numbing agents or painkillers, which is like pretty fucked up that you're not required to do that. But I did watch the show Clarkson's Farm. Have you seen it? It's with Jeremy Clarkson, who was in Top Gear. He's like a British guy. He bought a farm and he has this really funny show about his antics.

Kat (30:14)
Mm-hmm.

No.

Yeah.

Tiffany (30:29)
And it's a really good show. And it is kind of eye opening into farmer's experience, but at least in the UK. So when they did it on the show, they showed like the de-budding and it seems awful, but they did give him a sedative. So they were pretty much knocked out. They gave him a numbing agent, like they did a shot beforehand to numb the spot and they gave him, I think they probably gave him painkillers after. So.

Kat (30:49)
Okay.

Tiffany (30:59)
That seems a lot better if you're gonna do it, but it may not be necessary. So in one study from Italy, 74 % of farmers who chose not to dehorn their cows reported no difficulty in handling their horned animals. So it's sort of this like, we probably don't need to do this, we just do it.

Kat (31:01)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (31:27)
And like most US based farmers and I don't know, Western farmers do it. it's interesting. ⁓ Proponents of dairy farming emphasize advancements in animal care that like, we're so much better now. And that there's been, know, strides made in environmental stewardship, like

Kat (31:34)
Interesting. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Tiffany (31:54)
the farm program that I mentioned, it's like FARM, stands for Farmers Assuring Responsible Management Program. So I looked at it, I sort of browsed our website and then I was like, okay, I'm done with this because, kind of, because they have like an environmental stewardship conservation practice assessment, which literally is just a bunch of words jammed together.

Kat (32:10)
It's propaganda.

Okay. Right. I was going to say that's

like every corporation has that on their website now. Like our sustainability pledge is like, okay, what are you actually doing?

Tiffany (32:28)
Yeah, yeah. And

right. They said that they've lowered greenhouse gases, but I don't know. I didn't do enough research to know if that's true or not. ⁓ Because I looked on their humane treatment portion of the website and the first line says, we know US dairy farmers take excellent care of their animals. So I was like...

Kat (32:50)
Okay, we're just gonna state that from the

outset.

Tiffany (32:54)
like, all right, I'm done. Cool.

Kat (32:56)
That,

yeah, I mean...

Okay, keep going. The angels that I'm wrestling in my brain, it's like...

Tiffany (33:02)
No, you can talk, because I'm going to change the subject.

Kat (33:10)
Factory farming in general is so inhumane, you know, ⁓ and it's mass production of any food is just, is to remove us from, to sanitize it for the public, you know, and make it faster and bigger and, and to sell more, you know, it's consumer based rather than nutrition based or need based or, you know, and it's, so it's.

Tiffany (33:28)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (33:39)
You can come up with lot of excuses for it, but...

Tiffany (33:42)
Yeah. And then there's milk that we've been sold that we need, need, need, need, need, Yeah. They're even like, Oh boy. Lord. Um, would have been karma. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. But I mean, even Charlie's pediatrician is like, she needs to be drinking a glass of milk a day, at least, at least. And it's like.

Kat (33:46)
Right, kids will die if they don't have four glasses of milk at every meal. Or, oof, that was close. I almost dropped my latte. I caught it. No spillage.

The cows are coming for me.

Tiffany (34:12)
It's so interesting, I don't know, it's so fascinating, so.

Kat (34:15)
Yeah,

I mean it does have calcium in it anyway, ⁓ and vitamin D, yeah. And sugars that combine to make all of this work in our bodies. It's not like we just started drinking cow's milk last year as a species.

Tiffany (34:19)
and protein. ⁓

Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I'm interesting. I'm interested. Did you look into that China study for the veganism? Okay, I wouldn't expect you. Okay, I wouldn't expect you to read the whole book. I'm just curious because I've always been like, do we need dairy? Do we need like, I don't know. I'm interested. Good. Cause I don't have that answer. All right. Sweet. ⁓

Kat (34:40)
A little bit, no, I didn't read the book. I read that article you sent me. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'm going to cover that in veganism next week. yeah, a little bit. Yeah.

Tiffany (35:01)
So yeah, so they have a slight bias on that website. ⁓ So yeah, that's sort of the dairy industry for ya. You can kind of take it or leave it. It's a...

Kat (35:10)
Okay.

Tiffany (35:18)
Yeah.

I don't know, it's a tricky one. It's a really tricky one.

Kat (35:23)
Yeah.

Tiffany (35:27)
But let's talk about what's more environmentally friendly. So that was sort of more focused on like the treatment of, yeah, which is part of it.

Kat (35:29)
Okay, okay, okay. I'm like.

Ethical, humane, yeah. Again, yeah,

the way that cows are treated on mass farms, you know, like we were talking about chickens, like they're not necessarily, you know, they could live in a stall and especially dairy and they're like forced to produce milk, you know, that's it. So.

Tiffany (35:44)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, and it's interesting because on the farm website, all the pictures they had were them jammed into stalls. Sure, they maybe got out once in while, but I'm like, this is how you market it? So weird. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. ⁓ OK, so as far as environmental.

Kat (36:07)
Or like, yeah, they come back for... I know, you're like, this is the thing we're all afraid of. Why don't you have the cows running around in a field looking happy, you But maybe they're being honest, I guess.

Tiffany (36:24)
factors go? What is more environmentally friendly, cow's milk or plant-based milks? So I found an article. What was it from? was from, it really good article.

Kat (36:31)
Okay, Melx.

Tiffany (36:45)
Oh yeah, the World Resources Institute. They said there are a lot of different factors that you have to think about when you're thinking about environmental friendliness, obviously. As we've discovered doing this research, it's like, yeah, yeah. But this has sort of a pretty clear answer. So they said,

Kat (36:59)
Yeah, it's yeah, it's kind of apples and oranges. So on some level, yeah.

Tiffany (37:12)
The two things that they looked at mostly were greenhouse gas production and the water footprint of each of the kinds of milk. They also looked into how much land is needed, where it grows, antibiotics, fertilizers, and pesticides. But for the most part, they focused on the big two, greenhouse gas and water usage. So from worst to best in terms of greenhouse gases, take a guess, which is number one.

Kat (37:21)
Okay.

almonds.

Tiffany (37:45)
even if we're including cow milk in there. ⁓

Kat (37:46)
Okay, for greenhouse gases cows. Thanks.

Thanks teacher for hinting me along. That was like, that was something that would happen on Junior Jeopardy like, and remember, these are the things that get their horns removed.

Tiffany (37:54)
you

Kat (38:02)
that we just talked about.

Tiffany (38:04)
Yeah, actually, So yes. OK. So cow's milk is the worst.

Kat (38:06)
Yeah.

Tiffany (38:15)
⁓ and then soy. Yes. But relatively speaking, like if you're looking at the chart.

Kat (38:19)
That's why, okay.

Tiffany (38:32)
Cow's milk produces more than two times the amount that soy milk does. Yeah, and then, so the next ones, goes soy, then oat, then almond, and they're all pretty close. Soy is a little bit more, it's 122, whatever, GCO2e.

Kat (38:38)
Okay, so it's not even close.

kilograms.

Tiffany (38:57)
G grams of CO2. I don't know. Hang on. It probably says. Now it's talking about water. Anyway, whatever. So soy, oat, and almond are like pretty close together. And then after that, do you know other kinds of milk? This one's so, thank you. So glad. Yes. Have you ever tried pea milk? Hmm. Okay.

Kat (39:01)
Yeah.

Pea milk.

Yes, yes.

I think once maybe.

Tiffany (39:26)
What do you think?

Kat (39:28)
I can't remember. It was unremarkable to me. I'm like, this isn't milk, you know, like.

Tiffany (39:31)
Okay.

Yeah, it to me tastes like actual dirt. Just straight up dirt. But pea and coconut were the other two that they measured.

Kat (39:38)
Okay. Fair.

I

have used coconut milk in the past, so.

Tiffany (39:48)
Yeah, I'm trying to think if I've just... I haven't just like used it. I drink it, but I haven't like used it on cereal.

Kat (39:55)
I used

to, yeah, I think I tried for a while and the texture's different. There's all kinds of things, you know? I don't really eat cereal anymore, I would use it like, if I've already had a latte, or like I would use it for lattes sometimes instead, I would switch it out, or use it for smoothies, you know? ⁓ I like the texture, but like, I don't want.

Tiffany (40:00)
Mm-hmm. It's very watery. Yeah.

Yeah, well, there you go.

Okay.

Kat (40:22)
coconut milk coffee creamer. Like it doesn't do the thing to the coffee that I want it to do, you know.

Tiffany (40:24)
Uh huh. Yeah.

It's just like adding a little bit of splash of water pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but it is kind of interesting because coconut milk is almost half produces almost half the amount of greenhouse gases as soy and then like way less than cow milk. So, but I mean, either way it's, it is like all of these are much less than cow milk. So.

Kat (40:30)
basically white water,

Hmm. Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah. What? Okay.

Tiffany (40:54)
There's that.

Kat (40:57)
I guess the question I posit is...

Why do you need to drink milk at all? You know, like, if-

Like cutting out all milk production, pea milk, soy milk, almond milk would count out CO2 production of all of those things. you know, like, okay, if I, cause for me, if I'm not going to be drinking dairy milk, cause I enjoy it for lattes, I enjoy it for my coffee, you know, I don't need it at all, you know.

Tiffany (41:32)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kat (41:35)
Anyway. ⁓

Tiffany (41:36)
Big Dairy would tell you otherwise.

No, you're right. like our food system is pretty, it revolves pretty heavily around that type of thing. So like milks or dairy of all sorts. But yeah, I don't know. Like do vegans, I bet a lot of vegans use a replacement milks, but I don't know.

Kat (41:50)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

I've got a lot of vegans to replacement. Pork for replacement beef, you know.

Tiffany (42:13)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, I don't know. It's interesting. It's intriguing. Certainly doesn't seem like a necessity.

Kat (42:20)
Yeah, I read...

Yeah, I read... Well, maybe we should talk about this in the veganism episode. I'll save it for the veganism episode.

Tiffany (42:29)
Okay,

yeah, we don't want to spoil everything. ⁓ But okay, so then in terms of water usage.

Kat (42:32)
Yeah.

Now that, well probably cows still but I think almonds rank- okay I have read that so almonds are like the demon.

Tiffany (42:45)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yes. Yeah. So cows are bad, worst, but almonds are like right up there. like 20 liters for average water, 21 liters for average water use for cows and 19 for almonds or almond milk. and then, and then it goes oat, soy, coconut.

So, and then pea is estimated to be super low, but that it's not really known for sure. Yeah, I know. My nephew drank because he was allergic to milk for a minute. And then he just got used to it's called Ripple. It's like the pea protein milk. And he drank it for so many years and ewe. It was just so gross and quite expensive. ⁓

Kat (43:19)
Yeah, people don't use it very much.

Mm-hmm.

haha

Yeah.

Tiffany (43:44)
But then, so as far as protein count, cow's milk, pea milk, and soy are the leaders in that order. So the pea protein one is actually like pretty high. It's almost as much as cows, but, ⁓ soy has quite a bit of protein too. The other two, oat milk and almond milk have very little. So if you're looking for protein, although to be fair, Americans eat too much protein.

Kat (44:13)
Yeah, I was gonna say it's they like added to cookies and yeah.

Tiffany (44:14)
And now protein is in fucking everything.

Yeah, I went to Starbucks today. Yes, I still go to Starbucks and I apologize. but none of us are perfect. But they have like a protein foam that you can add to your drink. I'm like, that's actually disgusting sounding. I don't like protein powder anyway. think it usually is flavored with aspartame. It's disgusting. ⁓ But pea protein milk.

Kat (44:23)
It's okay.

Yep, yep. It's like $7 or something. Yeah, yeah.

No. Yeah, it's gross flavor. Yeah.

Tiffany (44:49)
So overall, the pea protein one is like a super sustainable choice. ⁓ Sadly, it tastes like garbage. So you can try it. You never know. Maybe you'll love it. But this study thinks soy milk is a close second. So cow's milk stinks in all regards, except for the amount of protein. But you can get almost the same amount from.

Kat (44:58)
Hehehehe

Okay.

Tiffany (45:19)
What did I say, soy?

Kat (45:20)
Yeah, sorry, RP.

Tiffany (45:23)
pea yes, that's right. Pee.

Kat (45:23)
Yeah. But

what about calcium?

Tiffany (45:28)
I didn't look into calcium levels. good. Okay. Cause I don't have a clue. All right. So now cost. So how much more do these things cost? So like I said, dairy subsidized, subsidized plant milks or not. So that means 100 % of the cost of production is passed to the consumer for plant milks rather than 55 % that's leftover after dairy subsidies. So that's kind of interesting.

Kat (45:29)
Okay, I'm gonna go into it next week, I guess.

Okay.

Wow, yeah.

Tiffany (45:58)
I took a random sample at Safeway. This is how I priced everything out. And I was kind of shocked by how sort of similar they could be. So it really depends on the kind of milks you're buying. So oat milk, I pulled oatly and that was $5.99 for a half gallon. Not cheap these days, man. Almond milk, used the Caliphia Farms, the non-organic version was $5.49.

Kat (46:00)
Okay.

No.

Tiffany (46:28)
pea protein milk was one of the most expensive, but not the most, and it was $6.99. Then I looked at the most expensive regular milk you could get at Safeway, and it was $6.99 too. It's certified, humane, pasture-raised, whole milk, But that's cow's milk, and it's still $6.99. The organic one I usually get is $5.99. Usually I try to get it on sale, but yeah, it's about the same.

Kat (46:34)
Okay.

Yeah.

Okay, it's about the same. Yeah.

Tiffany (46:58)
But if you just get like regular ass whole milk, the Safeway brand, that was $3.89. So that's like not quite half of the most expensive, but almost. So it really depends on what you're buying.

Kat (47:15)
Yeah.

Tiffany (47:17)
I always buy organic only because it lasts so much damn longer.

Kat (47:22)
my

god, yeah, think my half gallon of organic that I have in there, because I only use it to drink lattes, like ⁓ November 29th, I think is when it expires. Yeah, and it's currently September 30th. So I'm like, can drink this through Thanksgiving. Yeah, yeah.

Tiffany (47:32)
Yes, I know.

Yeah, I've seen it even later than that. Yeah,

it's crazy. Yeah.

Kat (47:43)
Yeah, and my,

I've been trying to buy the regular whole milk because it's cheaper. And like I had a gallon that wasn't, you know, usually they say like after the expiration date, it's like a week after this was expiring a week before the expiration date. And I was like, the hell, the hell. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (47:56)
my god. Yeah, that's what I ran into too. I was just so over it. And

even I've noticed organic milk, I tried to buy the bigger in the plastic jugs, just because it's cheaper. But that went bad too, like faster. So I don't know what the deal is.

Kat (48:08)
Yeah.

Yeah, I wonder if... That

didn't happen 10 years ago, you know? I feel like this is... Our systems are grumbling, but you

Tiffany (48:16)
That's what I feel like. I'm like, what's happening?

Kat (48:25)
I don't know what changed, but yeah.

Tiffany (48:27)
I don't know either, because it's the same damn milk. Yeah, it's weird. So I stopped buying those because I was like, well, that's half a gallon wasted. Yeah, exactly. So.

Kat (48:28)
Or if I'm imagining things. Yeah. I don't know.

I know, it's, I'm wasting $4 anyway or whatever. So.

learn to make cheese. I've made cheese once, but yeah.

Tiffany (48:44)
nice. That's cool.

⁓ Okay, so if you don't want to spend all that money at the grocery store, but you want to try or drink soy milk or oat milk, guess what? You can actually make them at home. Have you ever tried this?

Kat (49:02)
My old roommate used to make almond milk at home.

Tiffany (49:05)
⁓ okay. didn't look up almond milk, so I don't know how complicated. How complicated was it? Huh. Okay.

Kat (49:10)
not very. You just kind of soak it. I think

he might blend it, soak it, and then use a cheesecloth to strain it.

Tiffany (49:16)
Okay, interesting.

Kat (49:19)
Children earmuffs. So he had a jar, like a joke jar. I mean, it was a mason jar that one of his friends had gotten him that just said, come on it, see you in. And he would store his almond milk in that in the fridge. then every time I over the fridge, I'd be like, oh.

Tiffany (49:29)
huh.

god.

Kat (49:36)
You know, like, that was, mean, it was pretty funny. He's such a. ⁓ I mean, yeah, no, it was he had a lot of. Yeah, no, I'd seen the jar before and it was, you know, like I have a sense of humor, too, but it was just like it's so funny because he was so unassuming. then all of a sudden he had like a cum jar, you know, that one of his I'm pretty sure one of his friends bought it for him. But yeah, that he used for his almond milk.

Tiffany (49:41)
As long as you knew as long as he told you yeah, oh my god imagine if he had just moved in and forgot to warn you

You'd be like, my god. That is hilarious.

Yeah, that's so funny. That's awesome. That's hilarious.

There you go. It fits. So I found, yeah, so Love and Lemons had an oat milk recipe that sounded shockingly easy. And it was also really well rated. OK. Yeah, so this one is one half. And this is linked, so if anybody wants to try it.

Kat (50:16)
Yeah.

I think he made oat milk too. Yeah, same thing, but okay.

Tiffany (50:27)
a half a cup of whole rolled oats, three cups water, two teaspoons maple syrup, half a teaspoon vanilla extract and an eighth of a teaspoon sea salt. The directions are literally blend and strain. That's it. Yeah. And you know, I don't think you have to. It probably just helps with the flavor.

Kat (50:39)
Yeah. I think he wouldn't use the maple syrup or the...

But then I said...

Okay, I'm sorry, but like, you're wasting those oats, because you could be like oats have a lot of good fiber, oats are a really good food for you.

Tiffany (50:57)
I want, yes, this is true. Same with the almonds. ⁓ I wonder if you could just make oatmeal after this. Why not? It's just cause you know how you get those shitty little oatmeal packets, the peach peaches and cream. That's what it is. I don't know. Curious.

Kat (51:00)
Yes.

Yeah, it's just that same thing. Yeah.

just ground up, I don't know.

like, cause that's my thing. think if almond milk, soy milk, if they were like byproducts, the way like apple juice and applesauce are byproducts, you know, although I don't think apple juice is anymore, but like, you know, if it was like, it's discarded. We can't sell these cause they're not whole or something. And that's how they made the oat milk. Then I'd be like, okay, yeah. But it's like, no, we're just wasting a bunch of like oats.

Tiffany (51:23)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It would be nice. Yeah.

Kat (51:42)
don't have to be milk. They can actually be like a really nutritious food for you with fiber in it. And like you take all that away by making milk out of it. And then it's like, well now I have oat water, you know? Anyway.

Tiffany (51:53)
Yeah.

Yeah, no, I mean it is interesting. I guess it's like if you're gonna be drinking milk anyway, then this is your better option. Yeah, yeah. But how many, honestly, how many of us are actually gonna give up milk?

Kat (52:02)
If you need the milk, okay, yes. If you need something for a milk purpose.

I mean, my roommate did and he drank this almond milk, you know, and it, but I don't, he didn't put it in his. Yeah. I mean, compost obviously, but, ⁓ I mean, and oats are cheap. So like, but it's just, it's like, why don't you just eat the oats? Like you get a lot more nutritional value out of the actual oat than you do at a making milk out of it.

Tiffany (52:13)
I don't know.

Did he have a lot of almond waste or do know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, it's intriguing. Yeah.

Kat (52:38)
I don't know, that's my cranky old lady. The

kids these days with their almond milks and their... Just eat the oats. Yeah, well I don't even know what he... I guess he used it to make smoothies. The almond milk. Or the oat milk. Yeah. And it is cheaper than buying a thing of oat milk for the... So, okay, good on him.

Tiffany (52:45)
I guess it's apples and ⁓

The almonds. I see.

Yeah, it's

like way, it's gotta be way cheaper. Cause oats are so cheap.

Kat (53:07)
Yeah. But almost at that point, I would just like blend oats and water and then add it to the smoothie. You know, like keep the fiber in there. Like you're, it's going in a smoothie anyway.

Tiffany (53:17)
Yeah,

it is the same idea as juice because you're like everybody's obsessed with juicing and then you have no fiber in the thing that you're extracting. Yeah, it's the same idea.

Kat (53:21)
Yes, yes, you're taking... Yeah.

Yeah, it's not like,

yeah, yeah.

Tiffany (53:31)
And we certainly get too little fiber in this country. Too much protein, too little fiber. That's really interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And then I also have a soy milk recipe for homemade soy milk. So you have six ounces of dried soybeans. This recipe. This is from Epicurious.

Kat (53:34)
Very much, very much. Yep, agreed. And too much sugar, yeah.

Okay.

Okay, I don't even know where to- I guess my local bulk food aisle would have dried soy beans, but okay.

Tiffany (54:03)
Yeah, I've seen them salted and you can eat them, but I'm sure, yeah, sprouts probably has them. I don't know, but you're right. That's not going to be a safe way. ⁓ But this recipe says six ounces dried soybeans, non-GMO or organic preferred.

Kat (54:12)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Okay.

okay. Well,

prefer-

Make sure that you show the label as you're making it on your ⁓ Instagram so people know that you have money for the organic non-GMO. Also, if it's certified organic, it can't be GMO anyway, so that's redundant, but whatever.

Tiffany (54:37)
Instagram. ⁓ huh. Yeah. Yeah.

And there's a such as Laura soybean, which I didn't even look up but Laura

Kat (54:53)
Yeah.

okay. I'm glad that

they got a kickback from a brand in there.

Tiffany (55:01)
Yes,

totally. And you click on it, non-geomo soybeans. ⁓ Anyway, then it gets worse, I think. Six cups water, filtered or spring preferred.

Kat (55:14)
Yes, so take your bottle of mountain spring water. ⁓ Evian, preferably. Turn the label to the front. Yeah, okay.

Tiffany (55:20)
Yes.

So yeah, it's like absolutely crazy, this recipe. And then it also sounds like a massive pain in the ass, like massive, because you have to soak them and then you have to remove all the skins. And if you don't, apparently it really messes, Reddit was saying it really messes with the flavor.

Kat (55:32)
Okay, so you have to like...

Okay.

Preferably

by a child under a full moon. A child who's never been outside. Yeah, okay. Okay. In a ninja, in a ninja blender. And strain with cheesecloth from a turkish village. Handmade by an 85 year old woman, no younger, no older, 85, who died after she produced it. Yeah, okay. I get it. This, this recipe makes sense. Okay.

Tiffany (55:47)
Yes. And then you have to blend, cook, and strain them. And yes, yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. So that was annoying, but I don't know. I'm not going to make soy bean. Soybeans. I'm not going to make soy milk, ⁓ but feel free if anybody wants to.

Kat (56:23)
Yeah, I mean,

you know, again, people need alternatives sometimes, so I'm not going to judge anyone.

Tiffany (56:26)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of

if you like cooking and you like experimenting then it could be fun.

Kat (56:31)
Yeah, if you

have the time and the space and then yeah, do it.

Tiffany (56:35)
Yeah. Yeah. So that's all I have. ⁓ Kind of a...

You know, I might go back to drinking oat milk once in a while. Maybe I'll even try making it. I'm kind of curious. yeah, if I do. Yeah. And how much was wasted?

Kat (56:46)
Okay. Yeah, give it a whirl. Put it on our Instagram. Show us your Quaker Oats that you are making it from.

GMO filled Quaker Oats, yeah. Okay, see how that goes. Yeah. ⁓

Tiffany (56:59)
And then I'll try to make oatmeal after, see how it goes. It'll just be soggy mess. yeah.

All right, cool. So what's next week? That, duh. We talked about that like 400 times. Nice. Awesome. Perfect. All right. Very good. Well, Joe is about to leave and he wants me, I want to say bye to him. So I will, but I will see you next week and I will.

Kat (57:08)
Okay. Veganism. That's it. I'm just calling it veganism, period.

Okay. Go hug your husband goodbye. Okay. Sounds good.

Tiffany (57:27)
do some outro music. What should we ask people to do? Rate and review us. Five stars. If you haven't done that yet. Or if you have like a separate login or something, do it from that one. There you go. You just grab your brother's phone. Just... Perfect. All right. See you next week.

Kat (57:29)
Sounds good.

Yes please, write in reviews. Yeah, could really use it.

Yeah, yeah, log in under your mom's account and like us.

Yeah, five stars. He'll never know.

Alright, see you next week.