Transcript created by AI. Please excuse typos.

Tiffany (00:02)
Hi, Kat How are you? ⁓ wow. That's pretty good.

Kat (00:02)
Hi Tiffany. Better every minute, how about you?

Thank you butchcocks. That's his saying that he throws at the cashier or waiter or whoever asks him that. They love it.

Tiffany (00:15)
Nice. I used to work with a guy who said, living in the dream, live in the dream every time. And I was like, you kind of are though. You're just shoving it in my face because he got paid like way more than I did. He didn't realize I think how it came off. And I was like, yeah, you get paid like probably three times more than me. So you are living the dream you turd.

Kat (00:19)
Yeah.

Yeah. ⁓ see.

Yeah, that's... You're living MY

dream! Yeah. It was supposed to be like understated or hyperbole or something and it was like, Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

Tiffany (00:37)
Yes. Yeah, it's like, okay, dude. Find a new phrase. Anyway, welcome.

So today, this is going to be more of a conversation than anything, I think. I think. But I do, I have like three pages of notes, but it's sort of like an unformed idea that I have. Not fully formed. It's formed, but not fully.

Kat (00:51)
I'm into it.

Okay.

which I think matches the title quite well.

Tiffany (01:06)
Yes!

I'm about that, it's so true. Yes. my god, yeah, because what I'm titling this is The Joy of Sloppy Habits. So that is fitting, for sure. Yeah, so I started reading Atomic Habits. Have you read this? Okay. I was kind of hoping you had, just because I'm curious of your take. Okay, good. Because it's like the book that everybody and their mother is raving about,

Kat (01:10)
It's a theme on a theme. It's a meta. It's a meta. It's a theme within a theme.

No.

I know about it. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:38)
⁓ but i just found that i i can't relate to it like it just doesn't okay

Kat (01:44)
Thank you. Yes. When people tell

me it's like, how much control do you need over everything in your whole? Cause it's about building small habits that build bigger habits that build bigger habits that. Okay. Yes. I don't get it. I mean, I get it. I get it. But it doesn't resonate with me. Yes.

Tiffany (01:56)
Yes.

yeah no no i know i know that's exact okay good yes

okay and especially because i'm gonna read a quote because it's like it's and i'm not even faulting the guy's name is james clear i'm not even faulting the author for his tone but it's just an for me an unrelatable tone and so i'm gonna read a quote here he says

While my peers stayed up late in college and played video games, I built good sleep habits and went to bed early each night. In the messy world of a college dorm, I made a point to keep my room neat and tidy. These improvements were minor, but they me a sense of control over my life. And then he goes on to talk about how these small habits led to all sorts of accomplishments for him in college and allowed him to reach his potential. That was like a big thing is reaching your potential.

Kat (02:48)
What

if your potential is being friends with your roommates because you play video games together?

Tiffany (02:55)
And that's what I'm like, I haven't figured out quite what bothers me because I love this idea in theory, but it just comes off as like, I did this really good, easy thing for myself. Simple as that. Do this and you'll fix your life.

Kat (03:10)
Yeah.

Well, okay. Yes. And it ignores entirely that.

People have different strengths, but also different, like sometimes, okay, I have a lot of thoughts. Let's get this out. Okay, number one, circadian rhythms. And we've talked about this. Everybody has a different sleep cycle. Like we have night owls, we have morning larks. People fall into these because their DNA says it, not because they're lazy. Night owls aren't lazy. They just...

Tiffany (03:25)
good, I'm so glad.

huh.

Kat (03:47)
don't naturally fall asleep until a later hour and they don't naturally wake up until a later hour. And if you fight that in your life, you are going to be miserable. And we throw this moral judgment on night owls for this thing that he can't help. Now you can create, again, those atomic habits where you wake up early. I did it for a long time when I was in high school. I would get up at 5.30 in the morning and get a bunch of stuff done. like,

Tiffany (04:12)
dang.

Kat (04:16)
That was a crazy time, you know, and not natural for me, you know, getting up at 6 30 to go to an office and stuff would really wear me down. My natural wake up time is 8 AM. I'm not ready to go till 9 30, you know, like that's how it works for me. And I have to schedule my life around that. And another thing I saw some Instagram influencer who was talking about don't take fitness advice from somebody.

Tiffany (04:17)
Hehehehe

Great.

Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Right. huh.

Kat (04:45)
who's telling you to do their fitness routine and they look a certain way and you want to look that way because a lot of people are better at whatever athletic pursuit they pursue because their body is naturally that way. People with bigger shoulders are going to be better swimmers. know, if you're taller, there's the likelihood you're going to play basketball better. If, if you have a certain composition of muscles in your body, you're going to be a better weightlifter. So

Tiffany (05:01)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah,

if you have a high metabolism, you're going to lose weight easier and get skinny from doing exercise once a week.

Kat (05:15)
Yep. Don't, don't take

fitness advice from somebody who naturally is predisposed towards whatever fitness thing they do, you know? ⁓ you know, also take your own fitness advice, follow your, you know, listen to your body, but okay. Yeah. Like, so it's kind of like somebody who was like, this was easy for me, you know? Sure. It was, yes. You're telling me that I should be a better swimmer.

Tiffany (05:23)
Yeah.

Yeah, actually I talk about that a little bit later,

That's why it bothers me.

Kat (05:43)
when I don't have the right shoulders for it. I'm built for ballet or running track, you know? I'm not, I'm not the same, those are not my atomic habits. And yeah, I, I couldn't go to bed early every night and have gotten anything out of college. I would have been fricking miserable, you know? So anyway, okay, there we go. Soapbox done.

Tiffany (05:45)
Yes!

Yes.

Mm hmm. Yes.

Yeah. And it's like, somehow he was just able, like he was predisposed to just completely ignore any peer pressure, apparently. And like, that's, that's awesome. I'm so glad for him. But like, I can't relate at all. At all. ⁓

Kat (06:17)
Yeah, which great for you. Congrats.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, and

like your teen years, your prefrontal cortex isn't fixed yet. And like, it's your time to be weird and wear the weird clothes that don't fit you right and have the weird hair that doesn't suit you. like,

Tiffany (06:30)
Yeah, like sometimes doing dumb shit is fun. Like, I don't know.

have the room

that you can't open the door because you have so many clothes on the floor. It was me. Yes.

Kat (06:41)
Make the mistakes. Yeah. Yes. My room was like that in high school for sure. Yeah. So like, yeah,

live that. And then when you're an adult and you are capable of managing that stuff and you will have learned because you went through it, you know? Yeah.

Tiffany (06:57)
Mm-hmm. Okay,

I love this. All right, so today, this is still the intro. I want to... I love it. It's so good. Today, let's talk about sloppy habits and the joy of sloppy habits. Welcome to Greening Up My Act

Kat (07:03)
shoot!

Tiffany (07:26)
Yeah, this was, yeah, like I said, it's not so much like eco-based, I do think... Yeah, there is because it's like this idea of becoming...

Kat (07:35)
There's an eco lesson here. think we can come to one.

Discipline.

Tiffany (07:45)
⁓

yeah, disciplined and like.

Kat (07:48)
Like,

yeah, I would say we've developed, as people who do this podcast, habits because we did all this research and like as writers, that's what we do. We do research and then we have to like regurgitate it somehow. And then we can incorporate it into our lives. And that's why I know how composting, what goes in compost now. And that's a new habit I have from this podcast.

Tiffany (08:05)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah, same. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. So I'm not shitting on the idea. I actually am jealous of the idea. Like, I love the idea. just it doesn't work for my brain. And I'm to talk a little bit about his book and like, his theories. And I'm just curious of your take on them. But the sources only to James Clear, Atomic Habits, the title gives it away on like, exactly how I should

Kat (08:34)
Okay.

Tiffany (08:43)
how yeah, it just like sums it up an easy and proven way to build good habits and break bad ones. Easy and proven. Yes, it's not easy for me. And then the other source I had was ⁓ this woman I follow on Instagram name her handle is motherboard press. So she's like, she's a mom and kind of talks about motherhood, but it's

Kat (08:51)
Okay. Easy and proven for order Muppets. Yeah.

Tiffany (09:13)
She created this planner that's called the motherboard, which is like so genius. And she has ADHD, so it's sort of like all of her stuff is kind of like tuned into the ADHD brain. So I'm using her as a sort of a, here's another option. yeah. So this whole habit building idea.

Kat (09:21)
a little.

Okay.

You OK? I like that. OK.

Tiffany (09:37)
It has not worked yet for me. So I read the book. I didn't, I actually didn't get through it because I could, was like, this isn't helping. This isn't going to help me. I can already tell you this is not going to help me. And like, maybe that's because I might have ADHD. I don't know yet. We're going to get there. ⁓ Maybe it's like our modern day lifestyle that this guy was in college years ago and that was easier for him. I don't know. There were video games, so he wasn't there that long ago. ⁓ shit. Okay. No, he probably is actually.

Kat (09:44)
Yeah.

Yeah.

He's younger than us, it ends up. No, I'm just kidding. I don't know. I'd have to look it up. Yeah.

He's like some 27 year old writing this book and we're like.

Tiffany (10:06)
Um, yeah, God

dang it. Um, or maybe it's just, I'm expecting way too much of myself and I think that I should be able to like do it all. I don't know. It could be all of the above. Um, maybe it's a combination of a million things, but it's like, I am actually, I am learning very, very slowly how to create small habits even in the midst of what feels like absolute chaos at times.

that is what my life feels like sometimes. Yeah, and I mostly want to talk about it because I know that I'm not alone in this, like finding habits, habit creation hard. Because some people talk, like especially influencers and stuff, they talk about, I read this book and my life was changed and it was all good. And I think they're just saying that.

Kat (10:38)
Fair, yeah.

Yeah, the end.

Well, it's you can't do nuance in a 30 second story on Instagram.

Tiffany (11:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Or even a 30 minute video, usually. ⁓ Because my brain works like this. I'm super pumped for a thing. So I hear about a thing and I'm like, atomic habits. Such a good idea for one to three days. I'm super pumped. And then by day three, I'm less excited. And I feel myself moving on to the next excitement, the next endorphin kick. And then

Kat (11:05)
Yeah, yeah.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yep, the boost.

Tiffany (11:30)
I'll do it for like three days and then I'll skip a couple days and then I will forget that it ever existed. It's just out of my brain. Eight months later, I'm like, yeah, I was gonna do that thing.

Kat (11:36)
Yeah, totally.

Yeah, of

there's the book and I got a vision board and I it's on the wall. Yeah. And now I just stick postcards into it. Yeah, no, totally.

Tiffany (11:48)
Half done.

It's full of my reminder post-its. Yes. ⁓ So this is true for me of exercise routines. I was going to talk about this. So if they don't have a specific schedule-based event occurring outside of my home, I'm never going to do it. Never. And it's true of a lot of my hobbies. I've been like, I'm going to do this thing. I can't even think.

Kat (12:06)
Yes.

Yeah.

Tiffany (12:22)
Sewing, guess, was one of them. I'm going to do with, I'm going to become a seamstress. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. It's true of some of my career decisions. I'm like, oh, I'm going to learn this new thing. And then I just don't.

Kat (12:24)
Yeah, there's...

There's my sewing machine. I haven't even taken it out of that about a two years ago. It's still sitting in there. Yeah.

Tiffany (12:40)
So, okay, so a breakdown of the book. Five sort of main points that he makes. One, tiny changes make a big difference, which I do agree with. He's saying like small habits when done consistently, they compound over time. So improving by just 1 % every day can lead to massive growth in the long run.

And 1 % every day, that's like 365 % a year. So that's pretty good. Is that right?

Kat (13:12)
Well, okay, depends on what we're saying. 1 % of what like, is it.

Tiffany (13:15)
Right, right, right, right.

Kat (13:19)
Okay, because 1 % can diminish over time or it could grow over time depending on, you know, what 1 % of what is anyway. Yeah.

Tiffany (13:19)
Yeah, and it's like, do you, how do you?

Right.

Yeah, and I guess it's very subjective. Obviously you can't like math this out. Like I did 1 % more hobby today or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. So it's more like a feeling like, okay, I'm just constantly improving whatever. Which before I forget to mention this, I feel like this is very, it's funny that it's a man who wrote this because I feel like this is a very woman thing to do.

Kat (13:31)
Yeah.

Yeah, what is, so two seconds, like, yeah, what's a percent more?

Yeah.

Tiffany (13:56)
which is constantly trying to improve themselves.

Kat (13:58)
Yes. Yes, because you can't make money off of people if they're perfect as they are. Yeah, but yes, no, I agree. Every woman I know is reading a book to try and improve themselves or going to therapy. Yeah. Must be better. Must be better all the time. Yeah.

Tiffany (14:01)
We get sucked in.

Mm-hmm, if not five. Yeah.

huh,

which gets so exhausting. ⁓ Number two, focus on systems, not goals. So goals are the outcomes that you want. Systems are the processes that lead to those outcomes.

Kat (14:19)
Yeah.

Yeah.

I have heard that a lot and I do I have read a lot of the psychology behind that and I get that too. Because if you're like, I want to lose five pounds, it's like, OK, magic. But yeah, if you're like, OK, I'm going to take a Zimbabwe for five weeks and I'm going to, you know, cut 100 calories a day or yeah, yeah, I get that.

Tiffany (14:35)
Yeah, I think so.

How? Yeah, exactly. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

And he's saying lasting change comes from focusing on and improving systems. So yeah, I could totally see that. Yeah. And then he gets into the third one, third point. He has these four laws of behavior change. So to build good habits or break bad ones, there's a framework. You have to make it obvious, which is to

Kat (14:56)
Mm-hmm. Fair. Yeah.

Okay.

Tiffany (15:18)
Cue your environment to trigger the habit.

Kat (15:20)
Okay, so

you put your toothbrush at the same place and then yes.

Tiffany (15:24)
I think so,

or you have your floss there where you can see it. ⁓

Kat (15:27)
Yeah. Yeah.

Or your shoes by the- your running shoes by the door. Yeah.

Tiffany (15:33)
Yes,

yes. Make it attractive so you can bundle the habit with something that you enjoy.

Kat (15:41)
Okay, so I'm running to get a croissant. yeah, me too.

Tiffany (15:44)
Yes, I used to do that actually.

I to bakeries or I would run to the museums in the DC mall. Yeah. ⁓

Kat (15:51)
Breweries for me. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.

Tiffany (16:01)
Yeah, or like, ⁓ I, one thing I wanted to try was like, I can't listen to my favorite podcast unless I'm, unless I accept on my like more Monday run or something. I never did it though. That's the thing. Like I never have done it.

Kat (16:11)
Yeah, yeah. ⁓ OK.

I think you need a yeah, because you. Yeah, it's not enough of a temptation or a purpose. Yeah, it's not attractive enough. Not a good enough carrot. Yeah.

Tiffany (16:18)
That's not going to work for me, Yeah. Yes. Right. It must not be. Yeah.

And then you make it easy. So you reduce friction and you start small. And then you make it satisfying. So you use rewards to reinforce the habit. And I've heard like if you start a new exercise routine, like once a month, buy yourself something small for like, like new running socks or something. ⁓

So that's kind of like a reward. A croissant for sure. Yeah. And number four is identity based habits. So true behavior change is rooted in identity. So yeah, I know we've heard it all. So like rather than saying, I want to run a marathon and say, I'm a runner. I am a runner. And so yeah, yeah. So you.

Kat (16:49)
I think that croissant would be a reward too.

⁓ yes, I have heard this. Okay.

Definitely read that article for sure. Yeah.

Tiffany (17:15)
align whatever you want to do with your desired identity and just say like, am this thing, which I guess I did that as a writer. I am a writer. had to kind of like, well now it's like easier, but like when I was first starting, I had to kind of like really get into that. It was hard to say in the beginning. So yeah, I'm not real. I'm not a real writer. and then the last one is environment shapes behavior. So this is like,

Kat (17:23)
You are a writer. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Yeah, me too. Like, am I? Yeah, you are. Yeah, I totally know that. Yeah.

Tiffany (17:45)
your surroundings heavily influence your actions. And he's saying make good habits easier by designing your environment to support them. And this can look like a million ways, million things. ⁓ Like Carrie, motherboard lady that I'm gonna talk about says she started ⁓ charging her phone in the kitchen so she doesn't doom scroll at night. I'm actually gonna try it, but I listened to my podcast on it. So I'm gonna have to, yeah.

Kat (18:07)
Yeah, that's smart.

That's my thing, I fall asleep

to podcasts, so yeah.

Tiffany (18:14)
Yes, so I have my

old phone that still connects to the internet and I think I can download the podcasts on there. So I'm going to try it or just go back to an iPod.

Kat (18:24)
Yeah, why not? I

was thinking, Sean got me a tablet for my birthday and maybe I could, because I'm much less likely to scroll on that thing because it's kind of like a laptop in bed or whatever. Yeah.

Tiffany (18:30)
Yeah.

Right. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, there are ways. ⁓ But yeah, I'm exactly in same boat. ⁓ So here's my thing. He has a lot of laws. This is like a lot of rules and a lot of steps and a lot of things that personally, because I have a horrible memory, I am not going to remember this in my day to day. And unless I'm going to study his book and like

Kat (18:46)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Tiffany (19:03)
take it super seriously and make this my whole life. Yes, like it's not going to make an impact for me. And because of that, I would not call this easy at all.

Kat (19:08)
Identity if you will. Yes

Yeah. I mean, it's nice that it's broken down into bite-sized stuff and it like rationally makes sense and all these things, but I think you're right. Yeah. I, one of the things I feel like is missing from that, and I haven't read the book, it's very prescriptive, right? Where is the audit, the description of the habits that you have? Because I feel like we all have habits, like,

Tiffany (19:22)
Yeah, like I agree with all of it.

Yeah.

Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (19:45)
When you get in the shower, you do a certain series of things. You don't get in the shower and go, okay, what am going to do first? Wash my face or wash my hair or you have a set of things that you do without thinking. And that's what habits are. They're things you don't have to think about. Right. And he is talking about the way to start a new habit. But what about how did you start these other habits that you have? Why aren't we ever looking at what habits you do have already? You know, why aren't we describing? And

Tiffany (19:58)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, yeah,

he does talk about breaking bad habits. ⁓ I didn't get into it here, but yeah, I mean, it's kind of similar. It's like.

Kat (20:17)
Yeah.

Okay.

You set the goal, it's like reverse engineering it. But like, what about the good habits you have? How did you set those for yourself? Because you absolutely have things that you don't think about every day when you get up, that you do, that you like doing, that are great for you, that bring you joy. So where...

Tiffany (20:30)
Yeah, basically.

⁓ right, right, right, right, right. Yeah. Yeah, that's a good question.

Right. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Totally.

Kat (20:54)
Where is the description of that? The kind of, self-discovery rather than the self-admonishment, you know?

Tiffany (21:00)
Yes, and

that is exactly my struggle with this because I feel like a freaking failure.

Kat (21:06)
Right. It just because I'm just not built that way. It just doesn't work for me. And then people will be like, oh, it's because you're lazy and you're not trying. And it's like, it's just my brain doesn't function that way. Yeah. And I'm glad for people where it does, you know. Yeah. Yeah. But I need something else. Yeah, I agree with you.

Tiffany (21:09)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Ugh, I'm so jealous.

Yeah.

Yeah. And it's like, OK, so on that note, that's actually a perfect segue because I'm sort of slowly realizing how I do build habits and what actually is working for me. ⁓ And I'm realizing that my lack of follow through or focus may just be a lack of interest. And that's OK.

Kat (21:52)
Yes, passion. Yeah.

Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. You know, like it takes me, I think we've said this before, it takes me six months to ingest something and make a decision to do it before I'll do it. And then I'll just do it. And it is that interest and it's, there's anxieties about it and there's, ⁓ but yeah, I, I will make a decision about something and then it takes me a while to do it. And, and yeah, that's like cleaning this house up.

Tiffany (22:03)
Yes.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Kat (22:22)
I have been organizing in my mind where everything in this house is going. And then I just had to execute on it, which is now, but it's been six months of me thinking about, okay, what am I going to give Michael to take with him? And where is Sean's stuff going to go? And now I'm just following through with that. Yes. And so it's like the, have habits up here that it's like, it just, I feel like a dinosaur where they're like, it took 30 minutes for.

Tiffany (22:26)
Yes.

I'm the same way. Yes.

Kat (22:49)
a brainwave to get from his head to his tail. So that's why a stegosaurus had a brain in his tail too. You know, just takes that much time for it to travel. And that's just how I have to like mentally embody a habit for a long time. And it's not always six months. It'll be.

Tiffany (22:55)
You

Yes.

Kat (23:09)
Yeah, until it becomes something that my body can physically inhabit, you know?

Tiffany (23:14)
Yes,

my god, this is exactly me. And I'm gonna talk about that a little bit actually. It's so interesting. Yeah, because it's like, maybe I haven't found what I want to focus on yet in like exercise or career moves or hobbies or whatever. And yeah, maybe it just takes time and interest. Yeah. that's so interesting. I'm, yes, this is so cool. Okay.

Kat (23:19)
Okay, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. An interest, like you're saying, for sure. Yeah.

Tiffany (23:42)
I'm going take a quick break and then we're going to get into ⁓ sort of what I'm doing habit-wise these days.

Kat (23:49)
Okay, I'm stoked. Cool.

Tiffany (24:07)
Okay.

So, yes, so very similar to what you were saying. I am realizing, I'm gonna skip around here a little bit. what, exactly like you said, like maybe we all need to figure out like what triggers us to get, what triggers us to do the, to actually do the thing instead of just thinking about it, which is what I do too. And what gets us to,

Kat (24:20)
Hehehe.

Tiffany (24:39)
and what makes us avoid things. ⁓ So I'm realizing specific to this exercise example, like I said, I have to have an in-class or a group setting, preferably with a sign up button that I will feel like even if they're not, I'll feel like somebody will check if I'm coming or not.

Kat (24:53)
Mm-hmm.

And

like, you need accountability. Yeah. Accountability buddies, as we call them.

Tiffany (25:04)
Yes. Yeah.

100%. I need a goal to hit.

Depending on the thing, actually. Well, yeah, I need a preferably a joint goal. like, for example, I joined a running group ⁓ without having a race coming up. This was last year. And that pretty much guaranteed that I was not going to go every week. I just stopped going because I was like, what am I doing here? Like, yeah. And so and it would have been better if I had had a race with like other people, because I've done that before where I had a running group.

Kat (25:31)
Yeah. Yeah. What's the point? Yeah.

Tiffany (25:43)
And it helped that it was like the coolest running group ever. But, yeah, I was, I was obsessed with, I would not miss a day and we all did a race together and like, I don't know. It was just great. I need a deadline. Yes. And

Kat (25:59)
Yes, I am deadline driven for sure. Cause other people

are like, whenever you have time. And I'm like, I will not have time. Tell me when you need this or I won't get it done.

Tiffany (26:08)
Yes. Yeah. That

is my least favorite thing when people say it. I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. You don't understand. No, well, it won't even enter my brain. Like it'll just be in one ear out the other. Yeah. 100%.

Kat (26:15)
That is zero priority. Like it doesn't even get on the scale, right? It's not on the list. No, I, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll be like, cool.

Thanks.

Tiffany (26:27)
So if you've gotten around to, no I haven't, because you didn't give me a deadline.

Kat (26:29)
No.

No. Because you didn't say you needed it. Because four other people needed other things. I lost interest. Yes.

Tiffany (26:34)
Yes, exactly.

⁓ And like I'm getting so much shit done in my yard slowly but steadily because we have a cookout coming up. That's the reason and actually, Joe was talking about canceling it. I was like, you can't cancel it. I have to get this stuff done.

Kat (26:45)
Nice. Yep, that'll do it. Yes.

No no.

Yeah. Yes.

Tiffany (26:55)
You must not get all...

Yeah. then I also, something I'm realizing, and it might just be this phase of life, but I need a slow introduction, which is so funny because you said the exact same thing almost. So if something is really intense the first time I try it, I'm definitely not going to do it again. For example, this class called at the gym called Body Pump, which you can kind of think it, you can imagine. Have you ever seen it, heard it, done it?

Kat (27:17)
⁓ geez, yes. Yeah.

I've done,

I've done body pump, yes.

Tiffany (27:25)
my God. It was so crowded first off and it was me and all the retirees and which is great. They were in better shape than me. ⁓ Yeah, but they're so intense and this woman like yelled at me for being in our space and it was just felt like weights were flying and things were being, you you need like a hundred pieces of equipment on and off and down and up and I was just like, ⁓ I can't handle this.

Kat (27:29)
Yeah, I can handle that. Yep. I love them. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yo no puedo. Yeah.

Yeah.

Tiffany (27:57)
Yeah, so that was insane and I never went back so it just was way too much. And also like slow introduction in terms of my goal right now is like going once a week rather than like in the past. Yes, 100 % because that's too much pressure and eventually I do want to get there but I need to build up to it really slowly.

Kat (28:10)
Yeah. Three times a week. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, that's also, I just had a thought and it left my brain, but yes. Yeah. So introduction for sure.

Yeah, like getting used to it. can't, yeah, you can't. Realistic goals, I guess. That's the, yeah.

Tiffany (28:32)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. And just getting used to the routine too of like, okay, this is how I check in. This is where I park. This is how I walk in. This is where I check in. This is the room. Like all that stuff. Yes. It just creates so much brain chaos. Yep. And doing that more than once a week is like too much for me. So yeah. Yeah.

Kat (28:42)
Yeah. Yes, that's exactly it. If I don't know what to expect, I... Yeah, I can't handle that. Yeah.

Yeah, right now. That's right. Yeah. But

once you get the hang of it, you'll be like, yeah, twice a week.

Tiffany (29:00)
Yes, exactly. I also need a purpose, ideally, because I currently am reminding myself like the reason I'm going well, this is mixed up, but I'm going to a spin class. So I'll talk about that. And I found it and it found like, ⁓ finally. ⁓ But I'm going to that for the larger purpose of getting back in. Like the purpose for me of getting back in shape is to live longer for my daughter. Like

Kat (29:14)
I love spin class.

Tiffany (29:30)
That's, I'm not trying to be like a bikini model, you know, I'm just trying to like, yeah. The ship was never here, but yeah.

Kat (29:33)
No, yeah, that ship has sailed. Yeah, no, I agree. I'm... It's not happening for me. And I'm... Yeah,

I just don't want to die miserably. Kind of. Yeah.

Tiffany (29:44)
Yes. Yeah.

Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. And like, I want to feel better. I want to have more energy, that type of thing. But yeah, those, that's like the purpose. And it actually worked out. It's just such kismet because I found this spin class. That's like exactly what I needed. So it's at the gym is 10 minutes away driving. So that's perfect. It's a short class. So it's 45 minutes. It's. Yes.

Kat (29:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

That's yeah

So you have time to change and it's an hour, yeah.

Tiffany (30:13)
It's at, it's a really good workout. So that's another thing. Cause it's like bang for my buck. ⁓ It's at noon on a Wednesday. So Charlie's in daycare and I am on my lunch break. It's like more solo rather than like body pump was just like so out there and just like flailing. I just felt like I was flailing and this is very much like contained and you were just on your little bike and you're not.

Kat (30:20)
Yeah.

love. Yeah. Yes.

Yeah.

Yes. Yeah.

Tiffany (30:43)
making a spectacle of yourself. Yes.

Kat (30:45)
Right, you can sit in the back and if

you have to take a break, can take a break. And nobody's watching you fail. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (30:49)
Yes. Nobody cares. Yeah,

exactly. It's super easy to sign up for. It's not crowded. I don't have to fight for space unlike the body pump folks. Body pump freaks. No, I'm just kidding. The woman in front of me was like, it's really addictive. And I'm like, maybe. I was like, ah.

Kat (31:08)
Maybe for you, lady.

Maybe, maybe the first time's free for a reason. Yeah.

Tiffany (31:14)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I like the teacher a lot. So like all of these things just kind of came together and I've actually been going pretty consistently. So I say pretty consistently in this way, I mean by sloppy habits because I have missed, I think two weeks in a row has been the most I've missed since, I don't know, November or something. I don't know when I started going. It was probably later, probably like January. Anyway.

But even when I do that, I get back on the bandwagon. Whereas before with other stuff, would be like, ugh, yeah, I already missed two. I'm gonna be so bad at it. You know, like whatever it is. Yes. So, and I think it's because all of these other facts, like all, it has all the qualities that I need right now of like predictable, easy, stress-free, and kind of fun too. That helps.

Kat (31:51)
I didn't want to go back. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Why bother? Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Interest, I was gonna say, and you're interested in it. Yes, yeah, yeah. That makes a lot of sense.

Tiffany (32:15)
Yeah.

Kat (32:23)
Yeah, I mean, it's something they talk about with people who have ADHD is that when they're interested in something, they can hyper focus on it. And I feel like a lot of us feel that way right now, whether we have been diagnosed with ADHD or not. like, yeah, I can do this podcast every week and have like great notes and like, and then conspiracy theory on the thing and then like go down a rabbit hole. Whereas like looking for a job, I'm like,

Tiffany (32:31)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

No. Yes. Yes. huh.

Kat (32:52)
Zero interest in this. I have no interest in this. There's no reward for me. Yeah.

Nothing fun can come from this. Yeah.

Tiffany (32:59)
That's... yes.

Yes! Because it's so horrible looking for a job.

Kat (33:03)
Yeah.

I hate it. Yeah.

Tiffany (33:07)
Yeah, no, that is a really good example because, yeah, because it's like, okay. And I think also there's a lot of perfectionism. It's sort of like...

Kat (33:17)
Mm-hmm.

Well, okay, yes, that is something I was thinking about earlier. I, like I'm an introvert or whatever, I really hate learning new things in front of people. Yeah. Yeah. And so if I can't be just bad at it in the back corner by myself, I'm not gonna do it. And as thing about running, I can be really bad at it and nobody notices, you know, even if I'm running outside or, you know, but I...

Tiffany (33:28)
Mm-hmm. I think that's part of it that yeah, I feel like a spectacle. Yeah

huh. Yep. Yeah.

Right. Yeah.

Kat (33:45)
I need to be able to do it on my own terms at my own pace without criticism. know, guidance is fine. But if someone's like, you're doing that wrong, I'll be like, well, I'm never gonna do it again then. So see you later.

Tiffany (33:57)
I'm gonna just veer off this path and go back to my car.

Kat (33:59)
Yeah, if they're like, oh, try

this, you know, like there's really good yoga instructors. I have friends who are really good at just like, hey, tip here, instead of like, you're so bad at this, you know, just like try this. And you're like, oh, okay, that's better. Yeah. Or they could even just say it. They're like, you should feel this in the back of your thing. If you're not adjust like this. Great. Love that. Need that. So one thing about doing like yoga courses on like YouTube or whatever is that the instructor can't see what you're doing and like correct you for it.

Tiffany (34:09)
Right. Yeah.

Yes, yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh.

Yeah.

Kat (34:29)
And

I'm like, well, something hurts. hope it was the right thing, you know, and or like, they'll tell you like, you're supposed to feel this here and they don't tell you if it doesn't, what are you supposed to do? You know, what are you messing up? You know, move your knee back two inches or something. But yeah, so. Right. They can't come over and be like, your hip doesn't go at that angle. Yeah.

Tiffany (34:39)
Right. Yeah, totally. Yeah, and they can't read the room and look around and be like, oh, OK, everybody's doing this wrong.

Yeah, exactly.

Kat (34:52)
You're going to hyper extend

your hips. Yeah. So yeah, stuff like that. The, the safety in doing it, you know, is definitely big for me. The, the like, and I don't, the, anxiety about being bad at things, the perfectionism for sure bleeds into that. ⁓ I don't like doing things I'm not good at. Nobody does, but

Tiffany (35:06)
Same.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

And for me, that's part of it. That's part of why the Atomic Habit's philosophy doesn't sit right with me because I feel like he's saying, and I don't think he is, I think he probably in his book somewhere says the opposite, but it just feels this way. If you miss a single day of your habit, then just quit. Because he's so prescriptive and he's like, just do this. It's easy. Just do it.

Kat (35:33)
Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That reminds me of when I used to try to explain depression to a friend. And when you talk about depression with people who don't have it, they're like, well, just, you just do, you know, you just have a will to live and you just, and I'm like, you just do, I just don't. And I don't like even giving me advice on it is not gonna, I know exactly what I need to do, but my

Tiffany (35:55)
yeah, they're so confused.

Yeah. Yeah.

now. Right.

Kat (36:13)
the entirety of my physical body and my brain are like, nope, I just don't. And that's how depression works, you know?

Tiffany (36:18)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Yeah. Not only don't, but can't. That's like, you're convinced that, like, that's not... Yeah.

Kat (36:24)
can't absolutely can't yeah yeah and and you have data points you know

there's a lot of rationale behind depression too because your brain will be like this is why we can't do this and it's like well you're burnt out actually that's why you can't do this but your brain will be like it's because you're bad at it you suck and no one likes you and you can rationally know like okay but you will find data points to back that up so

Tiffany (36:32)
Yes.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah. Yes. Yes.

Right. Yeah.

And that's why I was like, it makes this makes me feel like a failure or like there's something wrong with me because it doesn't resonate with me. And I'm like, well, it's all seems so right. So right, you know, but

Kat (36:56)
Right.

Yeah,

well, I think there's kernels of truth for sure. And maybe the issue is that, again, you need a better yoga instructor, right? Who can see where it needs to be adapted for you, right? And you, cause I think what you just did when you explained your steps about how you build habits, is you reiterated everything he said, just you're using a block or a chair rather than just doing it on the mat as if you're somebody who has full flexibility, you know?

Tiffany (37:07)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Kat (37:33)
You're doing pregnant woman yoga rather than

Tiffany (37:35)
Yes!

Kat (37:37)
full-fledged 22 year old who's been doing this for seven years yoga, know, ⁓ adapting it.

Tiffany (37:40)
Right.

Kat (37:46)
which is so hard to do in our like un-nuanced, consumerist, prescriptive society. Like adaptation, knowing yourself and adaptation are so important to actually doing the things you wanna do. yeah, if you try to do these prescriptive things and they don't work for you, it just kind of sets you back. Like rather than being like...

Tiffany (37:53)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (38:13)
yeah, it's like, it's like when you go to the store and you try on clothes and you're like, it's my body. That's the problem. No, it's the fucking clothes. They're built for everyone. There's no such thing as an everyone, you know, it's not you. It's a fucking clothes and like rich people will, will buy an expensive t-shirt and go and get it tailored. So just go and get it tailored and you have to quit being like, it's cause I'm fat and ugly and I don't fit in anything. The clothes are the problem.

Tiffany (38:20)
Right. Right. ⁓

Yes, yep, yep.

Right.

Yeah, you're so right.

Yeah.

Kat (38:44)
The prescription

is the problem. They're great ideas. You do need a white t-shirt, you know, just get it tailored.

Tiffany (38:48)
⁓ huh.

Yes. my God. That's so good. Yeah. I mean, that's exactly, I was just like, what is it? Like I couldn't sum it up and you just did it perfectly.

Kat (39:02)
Well, I'm a fiction writer, and that's my... I'll give you a metaphor,

Tiffany (39:06)
I love it so much.

Yeah, that's exactly it. It's like anything that's prescriptive, like all this prescriptive parenting stuff, like scripts that you're supposed to talk to your children with. it's like, you'd think I'm gonna sit here and be like a little robot with my daughter because she's having a meltdown. Yeah. I know you feel it's okay to cry. Yeah, it's like.

Kat (39:16)
my gosh.

Yeah. So how was your day today? Yes. Are you feeling alright, honey? Yeah. Yes. We all feel bad sometimes.

Boop boop beep boop. Yeah.

Tiffany (39:34)
Yeah, and don't

get me wrong, I do say stuff like that sometimes, but it's not... I'm not like recalling the script from Instagram that the lady told me to say.

Kat (39:43)
Yeah,

and some people do that and they're great. Some people need a rule book with exact things and I think that's the thing is that it

Tiffany (39:45)
Yeah.

And some people can follow a rule book, maybe. I can't.

Kat (39:55)
Yes. Yeah,

no, I like instructions, but again, I have to do hands-on stuff to figure stuff out. ⁓ Like I can read a handbook until I get in there and do it myself. It's not gonna work for me. And I feel like this is true of so many like self-help books. It's like, I like the idea and I will take that idea and I will germinate it within myself and figure out what that means to me and use it. And instead of...

Tiffany (40:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Kat (40:23)
Judging myself against the rubric that is this rule book. I will say what rules work for me. And how can I adapt them? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (40:28)
Right.

Yes. And that's why it's so joyful. That's why I'm like coming

to a space of being like, this is just how I am. And it's good. Like there are so many good things about that. And it doesn't mean because this book was written for people who are not like me, that there's something wrong with me. It's like, it's okay to be sloppy with our lives.

Kat (40:39)
Yeah.

Right. Right. Oh, a hundred percent. You're not. The story of the

ugly duckling is not about a bird becoming beautiful. It's about a bird finding out where they belong. You know, the swan felt different because she wasn't a duck. And when she finally found other swans, she realized it wasn't that she even wasn't about being ugly. It's like, how do you eat and how you walk and how everything about you is different.

Tiffany (41:02)
Yes.

huh.

Kat (41:17)
So it's about finding your people and about finding yourself. And yeah, same thing. Like I am not cut out for a day job where I sit and do nothing in front of a computer for eight hours and just look busy. I can't do it. will, I go insane. I am suited to long periods of thinking followed by bursts of activity, not just in, you know, changing habits in my writing. I digest stuff and I digest stuff and then I.

Tiffany (41:29)
Right. Yeah. Yep.

Mm-hmm

Yeah.

Kat (41:46)
put something out and it takes me a long time to do it and that's not ⁓

Tiffany (41:49)
Yes.

Kat (41:54)
payable. That's not something you can make money off of, you know? ⁓ So I can do the, you know, side where it's...

Tiffany (41:56)
Hahaha!

Well, it

is if you're like a novelist, but how to be a novelist, yeah.

Kat (42:03)
Which I'm not paid for. Yeah,

right. Well, I'd have to jump through the hoops of finding an agent and finishing a book first of all would probably, I mean, I do have books, but like a novel. ⁓ Finding an and I'm not willing to put myself through the awfulness of sending my manuscript off to 200 publishers before I find someone who thinks it's worth taking on. I don't have an enemy. So I'm just going to write stuff and have my

Tiffany (42:10)
Yeah.

No, I know. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Right. Yeah.

Kat (42:34)
Dutch friend in New Jersey publish it for me from time to time on Amazon and all seven of the people who buy my books will and that's fine. It's great. ⁓ and I know that about myself. I have no competitive drive to try and make people love me. I'm like do or don't I'm out of here.

Tiffany (42:37)
There you go.

Yes. Yes. Yeah.

Right.

Which I love.

Kat (42:53)
Thank you. Making it very

hard to pay my mortgage, but I'm it's okay. It's fine.

Tiffany (42:58)
Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah. And I can't remember where we started with that.

Kat (43:07)
a judging, judging yourself, judge the rule book, not yourself.

Tiffany (43:09)
yeah, judging ourselves.

Yes, I love it so much. So true. Yeah. So the other sort of example that I had was Carrie from motherhood press on Instagram. ⁓ I ordered her, like I said, her mother, motherboard planner, and it's really helpful. It's like, I actually am using it. And again, not every day, not even every week, but when I do use it, I'm like, okay, this is nice because it gives you a really easy way to sort of plan out your days.

Kat (43:14)
Yeah, that's awesome.

Tiffany (43:42)
and then plan with the weather and you can plan ahead kind of. Yeah.

Kat (43:47)
⁓ I like that. Yeah,

I got some bullet journals and I found myself just using the blank pages in the back.

Tiffany (43:56)
Mm-hmm.

Kat (43:57)
⁓ cause again, it was the prescription of like, set your month goals, set your week goals. And like my to-do list is always like, that's all I use is my to-do list. And then maybe I needed some place to write like, what my mood is today? Or like, am I in my luteal phase? Is that why I want to murder everyone? Yes. Okay. I might like the stay planner.

Tiffany (44:07)
Yeah, yes.

Yes, she actually has that on there, which is awesome.

It's nice because there's a spot for grocery planning every week, and there's a spot for broken up into sections of the grocery store, so produce and all that. It's really great. Then the next page is brain dump, and that's all there is aside from the weekly

Kat (44:26)
Okay. Okay.

Oh damn. Maybe I need to check this out.

Okay.

Tiffany (44:41)
planner, but it's like the brain dump is what I use for like, my God, shit to do, you know, like this is a shit I gotta know. And usually it just, yes, exactly. ⁓ So it's really helpful and I just really like her too. She's just like a really normal person and just seems like really great and a small business owner. And it's just like, I love supporting like independent people. ⁓

Kat (44:41)
Okay.

Yeah. ⁓ man, yeah, I need to take this to Goodwill and I need to make coffee and I need to, yeah.

I'll have to check this out. Yeah, nice.

Tiffany (45:11)
So she has this reboot challenge tracker. She calls it a reboot challenge and she's been trying it herself and she's sort of been documenting her ⁓ attempt. It's her attempt at starting better habits. Basically for her, think exercise is a big one and there's probably other ones. but the reason I like it is she, on her Instagram, she says,

It's like one of those videos where somebody else is speaking and there's a bunch of videos playing. it says, Carrie says she's building new habits, but first she's charging her phone in the kitchen at night to keep away the doom scrolls. Less friction equals more follow through. And then it says, habits aren't magic, they're math. This week, this girl's learning to rig the equation. And so she has this printable, and it's free. And I printed it out, actually. I put it in my kitchen. I was going to show you.

Kat (45:47)
Uh-huh.

Under your phone that's charging. Yeah.

Tiffany (46:08)
Or under the fridge, like for all I know. Fold it up in a cup. Yes, exactly. Shoot, I actually packed it up. ⁓ No, so she's very open about like none of this is easy for her. She also says she has ADHD. So it's like she acknowledges the mess. And that's what I so appreciate about just this, that tone.

Kat (46:10)
Yeah, it's probably on a shelf in the pantry somewhere. Yep. That needs to be donated to Goodwill. Yeah.

Tiffany (46:35)
where it's like, she's talked about how like the habits are, she's not perfect with them. She's not like every single day, which is what you always get. You're like, I started this new habit and now I'm this new person. And she's like, no, like I miss this day. I miss that day. And it's okay. Well, you know, like I'm doing what I can. And then she kind of walks you through like her real life things of what she does every day to actually create habits, like putting out her shoes for running or.

Kat (46:48)
Yeah, right.

Yeah.

Tiffany (47:04)
Whatever. actually this little reboot tracker has like a morning, like stuff to do in the morning that will help, which is like unload the dishes, which I never do in the morning. Um, unload the dishes, start a load of laundry or like fold something that needs to be folded. Uh, yeah. And just like, and then at night she has one for like, make your coffee for the morning, set out your shit, you know, just like.

Kat (47:11)
Yeah.

I know you. Yeah.

Organize. Yeah.

Tiffany (47:34)
little things that I think really would help me. ⁓ So I'm gonna try it. I don't know if I'll keep using it, but I do think it's a really cool way of going about it. It's sort of like a lot of habit trackers are like this, but it just seems more approachable because it, I think because it's coming from her, but.

Kat (47:51)
Yeah. Yeah.

She's less prescriptive and more, I mean, she's also giving you adaptations, you know, or she's more like, it's not as a book that's not dynamic. It's, you know, it's not set in stone and you can have a kind of kind of have a conversation with her on a certain level about what she's doing. So that's different too.

Tiffany (47:58)
Yeah.

Yes.

huh.

Right.

Yeah, and this

book is like there are like literal laws and it's like law 1.3 in Atomic Habits and you're like, What? Like I can't. This is not. Yeah. Yeah. I used to think I was and then maybe I'm a mix. There you go.

Kat (48:25)
Yeah.

Yeah. What? Not an order Muppet. Not on this level. Yeah.

⁓ a switch, yes. I'm a switch,

yeah. I become the order Muppet when nobody else is. But if there's enough order Muppets, I'll just be like, time to drop my mother's engagement ring down the sink, you know?

Tiffany (48:41)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. Were you telling that story before we recorded or was that? Yeah. On while we were recording. Okay. Okay. Yes, that's right.

Kat (48:53)
It'll happen. Yeah, no, I think I told it. Yeah. And last week's, yeah, that I have stuff of my mom's that I keep and I'm just,

it's a, what's it called? It's a callback. That was a callback joke. Yeah. You got to listen to all our episodes to get our callbacks, you guys.

Tiffany (49:05)
There you go. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. So that was it. ⁓ But just my thoughts on becoming better versions of ourselves and maybe we're doing pretty damn good as we are. Yeah.

Kat (49:11)
Do ya?

Yeah, you're fine.

yeah, Taylor, your life... Again, and I think we... Okay, just to bring it back to Greening up my act. We talk about that, like, one of the things we pointed out was if it's too hard to do the Greening thing or too expensive, it's not worth it, you know? And no judgment. Like, you gotta save the world in the little ways that you can. And...

Tiffany (49:34)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kat (49:52)
It shouldn't really be up to you, you know, but you're a good enough person for caring about it and for finding what works for you.

Tiffany (49:52)
Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah,

and if the energy that you save from doing that really hard, annoying, sustainable quote unquote project gives you the energy to call your representative about something, about the national parks or whatever, and then write to them or whatever, that's- Or volunteer, yeah, like that's great, you know? Like we're not, none of us are perfect.

Kat (50:11)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

or volunteer or yeah.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, we can all sew our own clothes and compost and garden. my God. Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (50:28)
And on. And Baker on Bread. And yeah.

And volunteer. And... colors. And go to protest. Yeah. Yeah, and work. That's the other thing. Yeah.

Kat (50:35)
volunteer and color representatives and be on the city council and yes some people can those are magicians but i'm not one of them and work what's that precious

what's work precious yeah i do have work i should i shouldn't and i according to grammarly i am

more productive than 90 % of other Grammarly users. More accurate than... I think I'm more productive than 97 % 93 % more accurate than 91 % and I use more of a larger variety of words than 97 % so I'm like if I'm in the 10th percentile for all those things I'm doing pretty good for Grammarly you know. Muscle what are you people writing?

Tiffany (51:04)
nice.

nice.

Yeah, exactly. ⁓

Kat (51:24)
Like this is horrifying to me.

But I sometimes I take a screenshot of that and just look at it and I'm like, I'm good. Yeah. 64 % productivity or something. And I'm like, yeah, well, you buried your mom, you know? What does Grammarly know? Yeah. Yeah.

Tiffany (51:33)
I know that used to always pump me up and then weeks where I had like slow work. Yeah, you're like, ah man. Yeah. Well, fair. Yeah. Right.

Exactly.

Kat (51:48)
Yeah, no. This is a really good talk. I like this. I feel kind of, I've had a lot of trouble getting started on stuff lately. And again, it's percolating. Again, I'm cleaning my whole freaking house here. And I've been making dinner every night for Sean and me. A few days ago we had leftover pork and rice.

Tiffany (51:50)
Yeah.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

There you go.

Kat (52:15)
And I was like, I've got carrots and onions. So I made pork fried rice and it was like restaurant quality pork fried rice. Yeah. And I was like, and I used all the food that Sean probably would have thrown away because he only lets rice sit for three days. And then he's like, it's poison. So yeah. Yeah. And Sean's red stuff. And he's like, it's going to kill you. And I get it. But I'm like, I'm just going to heat it up real hot.

Tiffany (52:18)
Nice. That's awesome.

Yeah, Joe's the same because in Japan they're very strict about it. So he's like, we can't eat it after a day. Yeah. Yeah.

I

know, I know, I always do. Yeah, I know. You've also been rescuing a dog, another dog. So that's a big task.

Kat (52:40)
Yeah. Haven't died yet.

True, true, and he, today

he discovered tennis ball and it was super cute. Yeah, I was trying to get a video of it and I couldn't because he kept jumping in my lap and licking my face, so. But yeah.

Tiffany (52:52)
⁓ lord. That is so cute.

⁓ Aww.

That was actually Ruby's first toy she played with was a tennis ball too. And it's like such a joy because they don't play with anything and all of sudden they do and you're like, whoa. Yeah. Yes. That's adorable.

Kat (53:05)
No.

Yeah, it was cute. Yeah, he's been playing

with some toys with Ada, but this today he he pointed out the tennis ball to me that was sitting on top of the table and Demanded I give it to him and I was like, okay, dude. I see you So we had a good he's forgiven me for trying to wash him this weekend

Tiffany (53:21)
Aww, that's awesome.

Well, with all that mud, mud pit in your backyard.

Kat (53:30)
Oh my God, yeah.

He panicked. Anyway, yeah, it was not good. He didn't talk to me for three hours. It was sad. He does not like towels. He's learning. Yeah, I got him in the shower, I enticed him in with treats and had a Lick Mat and it was, and then I turned the water on and he flipped out. Wouldn't like try to tear the door down. There was no, yeah. And we watched Ada and like.

Tiffany (53:42)
That's funny. Ruby.

huh.

⁓ my god.

Kat (53:58)
I'm sure he thought we tortured her, so she was fine. Yeah, but anyway, yeah. So, do we know what, well don't know what next week is gonna be, ⁓ cause I haven't, we are, I'll go find some, ⁓ you know what, books.

Tiffany (54:00)
Right. That's so interesting. Poor poppers.

Yes, so what's

yeah, we're flying by the seat of our pants.

Ooh, I love that. ⁓

Kat (54:19)
The joy of reading, reading and

books. Yeah. I'm sure you'll have a lot. I just, have some things I have just discovered recently that I'm like, ⁓ fuck yeah. Why wasn't I using this? Yeah. And you're probably gonna be like, yeah, duh. But well, we'll find out. But yeah, the joy of books and reading and some facts and figures and musings about that.

Tiffany (54:23)
I love it.

nice. Okay.

doubt it but yeah.

Nice. That's such a good one. All right. So if you're not already subscribed to our Patreon, please do so. ⁓ I have my begging hands up. I'm not trying to beg you. No, but join us over there because like we've said before, this podcast ain't free, but we do really enjoy it. So we have extra episodes for y'all over there. So we're going to have one on ADHD soon. I don't know when. Any minute. Yeah.

Kat (54:53)
What?

Yeah. Yeah. Check it out. Yeah. Soon. Any minute, as soon as we get our acts together. Anyway. All

right. Yeah. See you next week.

Tiffany (55:11)
Okay, bye.