Transcript recorded from AI so please excuse mistakes.

Tiffany (00:00)
Stupid. Oops, sorry. I was talking about my stupid ⁓ browser buttons. Yeah.

Kat (00:00)
We're starting the episode with the word stupid.

buttons. Yeah, I,

I wanna throw my computer off. This is my old computer and I probably should throw it off a bridge. No, I shouldn't. That's not ecologically feasible, but I should donate it to a library or something.

Tiffany (00:22)
Yeah, mine is really old too. Hey, we're doing our part by not getting our new computer every two years.

Kat (00:28)
Right?

And with the tariffs, it's too late now.

Tiffany (00:33)
Yeah, aren't they excluded after Apple did all the corruption? It's only Apple though, right? I don't know. iPad.

Kat (00:38)
I don't, yeah, I'm not gonna buy a $10,000, you know, like my computer

is $600 at the max and it's a tax write off because I use it for work and I'd like strive to get that tax write off and it's, anyway, I'm not, I'm nuts. Yeah.

Tiffany (00:53)
Yes. Yes. Yeah. Mine was 700. And

I got it before I started freelancing. And that was in 2019. What is it now? So it's six years old. Feels more ancient than that.

Kat (01:07)
Yeah,

this is my freelancing laptop too. It is six years old. And I have a new one that I got using credit card points. Yeah.

Tiffany (01:12)
Mm.

nice!

That's a way to do it. ⁓ man.

Kat (01:19)
But I

only need to access the internet because everything I do is cloud computing.

Tiffany (01:23)
Oh, there you go. There's that. Anyway. Oh, what are you? The joy of computing? No, we're talking about the joy of birds. So this is my newest obsession and I have sent people like at work pictures of my bird friends because they keep me company during my remote days and

Kat (01:25)
Anyway, yeah, welcome to greening up my act. What were we talking about tonight? Computers? No. Yeah.

point out I'm drinking a cocktail also just my mother's coupes that I think she bought for me.

Tiffany (01:53)
Yes, in her coupes. Yeah, they're so beautiful. Yeah, if you

don't watch us on YouTube, you should look because they're beautiful.

Kat (02:02)
They're discontinued for the brand. think I looked them up. Anyway, Google image searches. Speaking of birds, Google image search for birds, wonderful. And plants. Although my Google image search thought my passionflower plant was some kind of pear tree when it first sprouted. But anyway, it's not always, not always accurate.

Tiffany (02:08)
nice. ⁓

I never even thought about that.

well.

Yeah, those plant apps aren't always, they're okay, but yeah. so yes, it's also my daughter's obsession, birds. We have quite a few bird feeders, which I will talk about. and I also got a bird book. So it's birds of North America from my late grandfather, Herschel. We've talked about him a little bit. I don't.

Kat (02:32)
That's just Google. Anyway.

RIP

Grandpa Hershel. Yeah.

Tiffany (02:57)
Yeah, we did. was on the main, I couldn't

remember if that was only Patreon. ⁓ He had a bird, like a really big bird book that he always had when I was growing up and I looked at it all the time and my aunt had it and she was willing to give it to me, which was so nice. So, ⁓ yeah, so Charlie and I both have been learning to identify different birds because I don't really know that many and she, yeah, she loves.

Kat (03:12)
That's awesome.

I'm like, it's a sparrow.

Tiffany (03:25)
a red cardinal and she always calls him a red cardinal. There's a red cardinal. There's a red cardinal. There's a red cardinal. Yeah.

Kat (03:29)
Are there blue cardinals? Are there green cardinals?

I would like, cause we have a lot of cardinals. She'd love it here. She should come here. Yeah. Uh-oh.

Tiffany (03:34)
Yeah, we have almost too many. ⁓

Yeah, and then the other day she's like, that's a chickadee. And I was like, I actually think that might be a chickadee. Yes. I was like, dang, girl. And she's four, so that's pretty cool.

Kat (03:46)
Black head, black breast, great, yeah.

Interesting fact, you might know this about chickadees.

Tiffany (03:54)
I probably don't.

Kat (03:57)
They call them chickadees because that's the sound they make when human beings approach. So we call them the name they call us. Their word for us is chickadee. Yeah.

Tiffany (04:03)
my god.

That is so interesting. It's like basically means danger. Probably like, yeah, what is this?

Kat (04:08)
It's so poetic. It's human being. Yeah. Fucking asshole. We call them fucking assholes to their faces

and they're like, ⁓ that's just what we call you.

Tiffany (04:18)
Excuse me. That's rude.

That is so interesting. I didn't know that. ⁓ Yeah. And so I've been slowly adding to my, well, actually pretty rapidly adding to my bird feeder collection around my yard. And it made me wonder, should I be even feeding them? Should I be doing this? Am I doing it right? Am I doing it wrong? Am I doing it too long for the year? All of these questions were just running around through my head. So for this episode, I was like, I love having birds.

in my bird feeder, like flying around and I love attracting them. But yeah, I just wanted to answer those questions like, am I feeding the birds correctly? Or is there something better I could be doing? Yes.

Kat (05:07)
Is this the right choice? Is this the

the greening up my act seal of approval?

Tiffany (05:11)
Yes.

Right, yeah, and yeah, because it brings me so much joy, but am I am I doing harm? We'll see. We'll find out. Welcome to greening up my axe.

I feel like I should cough in the middle of that. Yes, hello. So should we say who we are first before?

Kat (05:43)
No, we've already warmed up. You don't need a cop. That was me.

You know what?

I was thinking about it. I don't know a single podcast that introduces themselves and who they are.

other than us. Because like if you're listening to us, I mean, if you're new, welcome. But.

Tiffany (06:11)
Yeah, I think

people do, but maybe more briefly than us.

Kat (06:15)
Okay, well, okay, maybe say the stated point of greening up my act versus birds for like what this season. I just got a really good robot chicken image of like celebrity death match. it's like greening up my act versus like Cardle and Chickadee. And we're like, Chickadee. And they're like, don't call me fucking asshole. But ⁓ like.

Tiffany (06:22)
versus person.

AI could have fun with that.

Kat (06:44)
We're greeting up my act. What is our stated purpose for this season? Perhaps might be something to go into. Joy.

Tiffany (06:51)
Yeah, ⁓ joy. want

a break from the shit show that is the world. And yeah. Yeah. I mean, we just, you did a lot of thinking. Actually your last episode that was like.

Kat (06:59)
thinking. Yeah.

much. was realizing, I was like, I'm way more into this than I was into like glass recycling or whatever. was like, dogs, dogs. Because I just been researching it for like my whole, like I read books about dogs all the freaking time, you know, and I didn't even consider it as a sustainability initiative.

Tiffany (07:11)
Tux, tux.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, no, it's interesting. ⁓ Yeah, mine's going to be a lot shorter, but that's fine. I love birds, but you know, I'm not... I actually do read bird books, to be fair, but it's not like about... It's not like novels, or not novels even, but like nonfiction.

Kat (07:40)
I read bird novels.

You're not reading bird studies? Yeah. No, I mean, I think and maybe that's something we should prep people for is this season might be shorter episodes that are like less structured, you know. We're not answering a question.

Tiffany (07:48)
novels.

Yes, yeah, totally. Yeah,

we may, maybe are, maybe aren't, but yeah.

Kat (08:02)
There's a line

from a song by Over the Rhine that says, need questions, forget about the answers. We're creating questions, right? Yeah. is bird feeding sustainable? it? Okay, there's our question and maybe we'll answer it and maybe we'll just have cocktails.

Tiffany (08:08)
I love it. There you go.

⁓ that is super fitting for this episode too.

Yeah, there you go. There you go. Maybe.

Kat (08:23)
Which is a bird question. Why are they named after birds, cocktails? Cocktails would be rooster tails, right? Anyway, sorry. That's a question for a Patreon episode. I don't know. Yes. I'll look it up as a linguist, as a resident linguist. I will look it up. OK, sorry. I'm interrupting you because we're having too much fun tonight.

Tiffany (08:34)
Cockatiels? Anyway.

Yes, sounds great. No,

this is what these episodes are about. ⁓ I was just going to go through my sources really quickly because there's only four. Woohoo! ⁓ And actually, I used the Audubon, what is it? Audubon Society? Audubon? Yeah.

Kat (08:45)
Mm-hmm.

Yay, look at you. Restrained.

Yes, I have a friend

who is a in-house counsel for them. So I like the Audubon Society quite a bit.

Tiffany (09:01)
Really? I should

have, I do too. I should have, yeah.

Kat (09:06)
We should put them together and they can...

Hang out.

Tiffany (09:11)
Yeah. What, the birds and your friend or what? Yeah. No, that's not. I understand now. I don't also have I don't have an Audubon friend. No, that's why I was so confused. was like, who are we?

Kat (09:13)
Okay. Or our Audubon Society friends. Yeah.

I was so excited. was like, let's set them up on a playdate. I'm like, Judy, Judy, have an Autobahn

friend for you. No, I don't. Tiffany misunderstood.

Tiffany (09:37)
I not. I unfortunately do. I wish I did. No, no, meant I do. I meant I do too. I would love to meet Judy. I meant I do too. also love Audubon Society. That's what I was trying to say. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kat (09:42)
I'll introduce you to Judy. You can meet Judy.

you would. Okay, yes, okay. You look okay. was like, wow, we both have friends in the odd. What are the odds?

There's only like seven employees for them or something.

Tiffany (09:57)
Yeah,

right. No, I wish. They're very cool. really, yeah.

Kat (10:01)
They are cool. They're they do a

lot of great work and their books are great. And yeah.

Tiffany (10:07)
Yeah. So I use them twice for two different articles. ⁓ no, three. Because I also have a PDF from them. And I'm going to link to the PDF because it's like the world's longest link. they have some really good PDFs. So I'll get there later. And then the NWF, National Wildlife Federation Foundation.

Kat (10:11)
I mean, they are the resident.

Everything's out of our society. It's a good reason. Okay.

Federation? Yeah,

Federation. For sure, for sure, Matt. Sure.

Tiffany (10:36)
The

National Wildlife Frustration. Okay, perfect. I also use them. ⁓ And to be honest, I tried to find other sources that seemed reputable. It was really hard to find on this topic because everyone's got an opinion and everyone's opinion is different.

Kat (10:57)
Yes, and not facts. Yeah. Well, I'm okay,

because birding is so hip right now, right?

Tiffany (11:04)
I think so. is 100 % birding is definitely hip. I don't know. It's like Reddit had lots of things and I just like, ugh. I know. Cause you know, it's just, it depends on how you format the question too. What answer you're going to get for this topic specifically. I don't know what it was, but I think it's that there haven't been that many studies. People aren't like studying bird, songbirds or like

Kat (11:11)
I love Reddit and I hate Reddit.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Affair.

Tiffany (11:32)
birds around your house all that often. So if I missed one of them, send it my way because it just wasn't clear to me. It wasn't apparent.

Kat (11:35)
We just take them for granted.

I would

love if the one season of greeting up my act that got like negative feedback was joy. Like no one is, they're like, yeah, recycling episodes are great. And like your anti-Trump messaging and your, you know, no one get, and then they're like, no birds, you know, that would be amazing if our first emails were like, you got it wrong about the song birds or dogs. I'm sure last week's dogs episode is going to.

Tiffany (12:03)
You're not allowed to like birds.

Right?

well. Yeah, that's also opinion. Yeah. No, that would be awesome. I would actually love that.

Kat (12:12)
I'm gonna get hate, you know, yeah. Anyway.

Hate mail for the joy season.

Tiffany (12:21)
Yeah, and I actually haven't gone birding, mostly because I think there are groups around here that do it and I'm pretty sure I would be the youngest like by far. I think maybe that's a stereotype. elder millennial. No, I was thinking like retiree.

Kat (12:34)
Really? Oh, OK. Well, it is kind of an elder millennial.

⁓ I mean, okay, well, elder millennials

hang out with retirees. We're kind of friends.

Tiffany (12:46)
No,

you're not wrong. I went to Salvation Army again today and was like me and the retirees. And I loved it every second of it. Yes. Okay. No, I should try it. I don't know why. It doesn't matter if I'm the youngest. Like, who cares?

Kat (12:52)
We're friends. We're friends. Yes. ⁓

No, actually, I

just have a saying that if you're the youngest person in the joint, you're in the right place.

Tiffany (13:06)
⁓

Kat (13:07)
That was my saying for when I went to the Santa Fe Opera in my 20s. And I was like, everyone sings.

Tiffany (13:12)
because you're, you know what's up basically. Yeah.

Kat (13:14)
It's they know how to live life. They know how to enjoy

life. If they're done worrying about sex or family or they're just like, this is the thing. This is the thing that doesn't give me heartburn and is worth staying out past nine p.m.

Tiffany (13:22)
Drugs are rock and roll.

You're not wrong. I love that, actually. Yeah. No?

Kat (13:33)
And birds, birds actually fall into that category. Doesn't give you heartburn.

Maybe we're staying out or getting up at 6 a.m. I guess is.

Tiffany (13:40)
I was gonna

say, don't know if 9pm is gonna help, unless you're looking for owls? Which?

Kat (13:43)
Not that, not in that position. Which, yes. Love

them, yes. Very great.

Tiffany (13:50)
They're great. ⁓

Yeah, so, okay. So I have, I do want a bird, but you know, because yeah, a lot of people are becoming birders and it's so cute.

Kat (14:00)
I want to say she wants to

bird, not a bird.

Tiffany (14:04)
I want to bird, to become a birder. There, yeah. I want a bird in my house. No, I don't actually. I don't. Yeah. Anywho's, so.

Kat (14:06)
Okay. Okay. Yeah. Cause we don't want a bird.

No.

Tiffany (14:22)
Bird feeders, potential drawbacks of bird feeders. They do exist. And you actually mentioned it at one point, like ⁓ hummingbird feeders, you have to clean them really well. I just got a hummingbird feeder and I've been pretty careful about cleaning it. No hummingbirds yet, but it's only been a couple of days. ⁓ I hope, I hope I didn't miss it. It said like right around,

Kat (14:23)
Okay.

Yes. Yes.

It's early in the season, think, too, for Mario.

Or your dog is scaring them away.

Yeah.

Tiffany (14:51)
Yeah,

it said right around this time or my child. She's like, let me check the hummingbird feeder every five seconds. So cute. So feeders in general, bird feeders have actually contributed to outbreaks of diseases. So house finch eye disease is one of them. I know I didn't look into it. I know I didn't look into it because I was like, that sounds so sad. And actually

Kat (15:10)
my God. That sounds horrible. I don't want to. I don't want to, yeah.

Tiffany (15:19)
We just saw our first house finch the other day and I don't think so. Oops, I'm hitting my thing. I don't think so. No, but we, Charlie and I were sitting at our dining room table and we have one of those like suction cupped bird feeders that you put on your window. My brother-in-law actually gave it to me because he bought it he's like, I didn't realize that all of our windows have screens so we can't use it.

Kat (15:22)
Does it have eye disease? Okay, good. It's fine. It's fine.

Yeah.

So you can't suction anything,

yeah. Brilliant, brilliant.

Tiffany (15:49)
Yeah,

so it's perfect for us actually because it's like right by our dining room table so when we're eating we're like, birds! And I was like, my god, I've never seen that one before so we googled it and then figured out it was a house finch. Anyway, so.

Kat (15:53)
That's nice.

So is it from like a fungus in the food or like the wrong food or a virus that they get from each other or?

Tiffany (16:08)
No, yeah. I

think it can be both. ⁓ One of the things I don't know about specifically about the eye disease, but ⁓ it also they can spread like respiratory diseases. Yes, and I think it's because, yeah, a number of things your food can go moldy, which can be fatal for birds. ⁓ Your food. Just like, yeah, having all of these birds, especially different species together.

Kat (16:19)
That's fair, because they're all gathered.

Tiffany (16:37)
that aren't normally together can just spread shit that wouldn't normally spread. Well, I'm going to talk about that a little bit. Because I've also wondered. so, and also if you have like, I guess I have this somewhere else, but I'll just say it now, like underneath your bird feeder, they can.

Kat (16:41)
like the bird flu.

Okay, okay.

Tiffany (17:03)
There can be like a bunch of old food and poop and stuff mixed together and it create can create like a slurry, especially if it's wet and that can spread disease.

Kat (17:07)
Yeah, that makes sense.

I hate slurries.

Well, to your dog too. Your dog can eat it and get giardia, but yeah, also, yeah. Sorry. A slurry. I hate slurries. slurries are so gross. Okay.

Tiffany (17:16)
or that, yeah. So, yeah, they, yeah, I know, I know. I

know. Mine hasn't done that yet that I've seen. No slurries over here. So I'll keep an eye on it. ⁓ But they can also, this is one study. So I need to be very clear about that.

Kat (17:30)
No slurries over her.

Tiffany (17:43)
and it was a study on Spanish white storks. So this is not...

Kat (17:46)
Specific,

I mean, do you have Spanish white stories coming to your yard is my question. But OK, I love applying scientific findings to like, especially biologic, like Sean, my boyfriend talks about all the time, all these studies that people are doing. He's like, they're studying the eyeballs of a certain frog in Texas.

Tiffany (17:53)
I wish. No.

Mm-hmm.

Kat (18:12)
And I'm like, okay, it could lead to all kinds of research for other things. You know, like it's so necessary, but it's so funny how like we have access to all these reports and findings that it's like, so it was true of one group of birds in Spain, but we think it might be true of further testing is needed. Anyway, I freaking love science for that.

Tiffany (18:22)
Mm-hmm.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah, so because the Audubon Society, like, they use this study as an example that like, birds has the potential from this study to alter their behavior. So these storks typically migrate, but they didn't migrate. They usually went to North Africa. ⁓

and instead they stuck around because there were landfills full of food.

So that in this case meant that sick birds that normally wouldn't survive the flight, the migration flight, yeah, and they were around to infect more birds. So it was kind of, it was a problem. So again,

Kat (19:19)
kept going and made it.

Tiffany (19:33)
That's not your cardinal, you know, like that's-

Kat (19:35)
No, right,

I know like Robins aren't going through this, right?

Tiffany (19:38)
Yeah,

but I have over the years heard people say you shouldn't feed your birds or you shouldn't use a bird feeder in certain times of the year because of that and I

Kat (19:49)
because

it will encourage them to stay instead of migrate.

Tiffany (19:52)
Right, instead of migrate.

But everything else that I've read says seems like that's not true. Of songbirds, specifically. Maybe, yeah, so maybe if you have a landfill, sure, maybe, but if you don't have a landfill in your backyard, in Spain specifically, yeah. So again, if that's, if you can prove me wrong, prove me wrong, please, but.

Kat (20:01)
Okay. Songbirds. The birds we love.

in Spain. Yeah.

Tiffany (20:22)
⁓ The thing else that they were saying is like most bird feeders have ideally food that you would find anyway in the like anything the birds that's in there that the birds are going to eat is going to be in nature also. So it's sort of like it's not really

Kat (20:36)
naturally occurring. Yeah. You're not.

Yeah, you're not like they're not getting bacon, you know.

Tiffany (20:43)
Right. Yeah, the landfill, different story, I guess. ⁓

Kat (20:49)
There's a lot of bacon in the landfill just from my house

because I forget it's in the fridge. So that's a call back to last week. You're welcome. ⁓

Tiffany (20:55)
Yeah, I wish. No,

I wish. We weren't recording it, but you called yourself a slob and you said...

Kat (21:00)
yeah, I am. I'm a

total slob when it comes to the fridge and then, okay.

Tiffany (21:06)
It was so funny. yeah, why not your old moldy bacon? That's perfect.

Kat (21:08)
Maybe I just give the birds the bacon. I don't know.

Moldy bacon.

It's not moldy, okay? My fridge works. I'm just, I just don't eat it. I don't know. Dry, dry. It's, it was probably fine. I probably could have given it to the dogs, but I didn't. I didn't.

Tiffany (21:18)
⁓ Sour bacon? don't know. Anyway, it's got to be old by this point. It's not good. It's three weeks old. OK. Not that old then. OK.

You're not that much of a slob. OK. Yeah. Yeah. So.

Kat (21:36)
Keep telling me that. Let's go on about birds, though. Tell me more about birds.

Tiffany (21:42)
I also looked up very very very briefly about bird flu because every time I go out to my bird feeder I'm stressed out about bird flu because you hear on the news like exposure to wild birds blah blah blah blah blah You know cause bird flu in this person whatever Turns out it's more likely for birds like owls or ducks

Kat (22:07)
Who eat?

duh.

Tiffany (22:11)
Yeah, or raptors, like hawks and stuff.

Kat (22:16)
Okay, so that

eat dead birds that, or kill birds that have flu and they can get it.

Tiffany (22:24)
Probably, but you would think... No.

Kat (22:26)
I don't know if ducks are not right. Ducks do not

eat pigeons. I'm just going to throw that out there that I know of. I could be wrong.

Tiffany (22:32)
No, I don't

know. This says waterfowl. Spanish storks. ⁓

Kat (22:40)
Spanish storks, for instance? I

wonder. Okay, that's interesting. I mean the-

Tiffany (22:45)
Again, I really didn't look into this very much.

Kat (22:48)
I'm not

very, I mean, for all of the work that I have done in healthcare, I'm not very understanding of infectious disease and the way the flu works, the way that birds transfer disease to mammals. I mean, it's so complex and so nuanced and

Tiffany (22:55)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (23:13)
When I went to Hong Kong for the first time in 2006, 2007, there were no birds on the city street. Like, because there had been the bird flu outbreak of 2005, 2006. And it occurred to me they killed all of their city birds because of the fear of this flu. And like, we who have experienced COVID and we're like, oh, so like,

Tiffany (23:18)
Mm-hmm.

wow.

Kat (23:42)
They killed entire populations of animals, you know, like because they were carrying the strain. Like we haven't encountered that in the United States, but I mean, H5N1 is pretty scary that it transfers to cows and can be transmissible through milk and raw food for pets. like, we haven't killed off all of our songbirds because we're afraid they're going to give us a flu, you know, like, ⁓

Tiffany (24:02)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Kat (24:13)
I don't know, it's just something that I feel like we're such innocent babies in this country about that.

Tiffany (24:16)
Right. Yeah,

that's crazy. Yeah. so as far as that, like as far as songbirds, it's really, there's like really a low chance that they're going to have bird flu. and it's still super rare for it to actually be. Yeah. To humans.

Kat (24:35)
Transmissible. Yeah. Yeah, fair.

Yeah.

Tiffany (24:40)
But still wash your hands.

Kat (24:42)
I mean, yeah, don't pick up a don't pick up any dead animals without gloves on. yeah, don't let your dog chew on it. Yeah.

Tiffany (24:46)
Well, definitely not dead animals. even if you're, no,

and even if you're like, every time I change the feeder, I still wash because there's like poop on it. You know, you just don't know. Yeah, there's lots of shit. Yeah. So I still wash my hands and I'm like really careful about that stuff. But no, I don't think I'm going to get bird flu from my birds and for my red red cardinals. So are my.

Kat (24:57)
Yeah. There's Salmonella, Giardia. There's, know, yeah, we're all, yeah.

No, I don't think you will. Yeah. Yeah, you're red

cardinal.

Tiffany (25:15)
Rag cardinal. ⁓ So, you know, because of all this, aside from bird flu, but because of the chance of spreading disease, you know, between birds and causing all these potential migratory issues with storks, ⁓ should we stop feeding them? That was my big question. Like, should I have a bird feeder? Yes. And according to Daniel Becker,

Kat (25:32)
Apparently, yeah.

Yes. That is the thesis. Yes.

Tiffany (25:44)
who is a PhD candidate at University of Georgia's School of Ecology. He says, absolutely not. So do not stop feeding them. So I was like, yay. Yes, you are my new idol. Yes. And he says there are plenty of simple things we can do to avoid many of the potential harmful outcomes. So I will get into those in a minute. ⁓

Kat (25:52)
Okay, feed the birds. Yeah, I will follow whatever you say, Daniel. Dr. Daniel, almost soon to be Dr. Daniel. Yeah.

Tiffany (26:14)
How far along are we now? Yeah, let's take a break. Okay, let me just get this going. Okay.

Kat (26:16)
25 minutes, we could take a break if you want. All right, quick break.

Tiffany (26:38)
Okay, sweet.

Kat (26:40)
Breakover, we were.

Tiffany (26:41)
Break

over, break commenced, great, not commenced, uncommenced. Jesus Christ, I don't even have a cocktail. Okay.

Kat (26:45)
Uncommenced.

I know, I'm just, I'm

some kind of energy through the wires to you, I don't know. Okay, good, good, good, it's birds.

Tiffany (26:54)
And I love it. It's my favorite. Yeah, yeah.

It's Burt's.

⁓ Okay, so my other question was do we feed them year round? Like I've heard so many times, you shouldn't feed them in the winter for this maybe the migratory. Yeah. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So ⁓ it turns out that we actually don't really need to. And because I'm pretty new at this whole bird thing, bird feeding thing, I didn't

Kat (27:11)
Right, might, yeah, because the Spanish birds will not migrate to South Africa or North Africa, yeah.

Tiffany (27:29)
This is really my first year of doing it. So I'm noticing that in the winter, ⁓ my God, they devoured. Devoured. Like I thought I was gonna go broke.

Kat (27:38)
Yeah, video

that you shared, yeah, of your birds just like, rawr!

Tiffany (27:42)
Yeah.

Yeah, it was literally like 30 of them at a time. I every day I was out there filling this huge bird feeder. And that was the winter. then now that it's warm, and there's more stuff for them to eat, they're like, barely even touching it. So that's what's so interesting. It turns out in the spring, 96 % of songbirds rely on caterpillars and insects to feed their young specifically. But that's like, most of them that's

Kat (27:56)
They don't need it. Yeah.

Okay.

Tiffany (28:12)
that's what they're consuming. And it's a shitload of them, like a shocking amount of insects. One sh- I almost said one shit- shit- shitity. Sorry, I'm not trying to shit on chickadees again. I love them. They're not little turd sacks. Anyway, okay. So one chickadee can bring between 350 and 570 caterpillars for her babies every day.

Kat (28:21)
Ha ha.

They're so cute!

Tiffany (28:44)
I don't know how.

Kat (28:46)
Okay, I'm thinking several, and you might address this, but I'm thinking, okay, well, so what I want then.

Tiffany (28:49)
I won't, probably.

Kat (28:55)
is not to use insecticides, because then the birds don't have any to feed their young, but then also to feed the birds so they know I have food in my yard so they take all of the caterpillars off of my tomato plants and feed them to their young. I want chickadees in my yard. Okay, I'm getting it. All right.

Tiffany (28:58)
Okay, maybe I will. ⁓

Yes.

I think, I mean, yeah, because that's what basically the consensus is that instead of feeding them from a bird feeder in the spring, plant native plants that support insects.

Kat (29:26)
So they'll come and they'll eat all the wasps. I wish, I wish, I wish.

Tiffany (29:28)
Yeah, well, whatever. Whatever

they're gonna eat. Yeah, because I had these dumb little caterpillars that were eating the hell out of my... I planted this swamp rosnello and it's like native, but I think... It's sort of like hibiscus. It's really pretty. But yes, these little caterpillars were everywhere and I'm like, where were my chickadees? Come on, guys. Because I had to like kill them myself. Anyway.

Kat (29:40)
It sounds terrible, but... Okay. Ooh.

Mm-hmm.

You gotta hire the chickadees in the winter so they'll come back for you in the spring. That's the trick.

Tiffany (29:57)
Yes. Yeah, maybe I've done that.

Fingers crossed this year. So yeah, and I don't, from what I can tell, I don't think it's bad to feed them in the spring. So like right now I still have food out and I don't think that's bad. Yeah. It's just kind of like if they, and I still see them. Yeah, exactly. my God. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Kat (30:12)
They just won't eat it. Yeah. Or the bachelors, the unwed mothers, they'll

The non-breeding pairs still need to

Tiffany (30:26)
Yeah, so they... Yeah, I don't think it's bad. It's just maybe wasting a little bit of money. don't know. Summer and fall, they eat bugs, seeds, berries, and nuts. And native plants of many varieties, including late blooming flowers, grasses, and trees go to seed at this time of year, which gives birds lots of healthy fats that they need. And so you can...

plant lots of those and that helps.

Kat (30:57)
Okay. Emeranth

and yeah.

Tiffany (31:01)
You probably, you might even know more than me. So Aster, I made a little list, but like Aster's, Elderberry, Sumac, Juniper, those are some options. Those are more like East. I was going to say those are like very East coast too. okay. ⁓ and apparently I, red spice, red spice bush has, they have berries and I'm pretty sure they're edible by people because I think I went.

Kat (31:12)
I'm so allergic to Juniper, but you know, mean, Juniper is all over here too, but yeah.

Okay.

Tiffany (31:30)
hiking once and my friend was like, eat this and it tasted like pepper. But maybe I'm thinking about it. Don't go out and eating them because I'm not, I'm not sure that that was around. Anyway, that one berry provides the same amount of fat for birds as 50 blackberries.

Kat (31:37)
Yeah, please don't. Please don't eat things that...

Tiffany (31:49)
Which is crazy. I mean, to be fair, blackberries aren't really like fat heavy, but...

Kat (31:53)
I know I'm like their water

and fiber mostly, but.

Tiffany (31:56)
So yeah, ⁓ exactly. And it's a lot easier to find one berry than it is 50 blackberries. So then we get to winter. And this is where we really can up our game and where we can play. I'm trying to think of a sports metaphor anyway. God.

Kat (31:59)
But they needed to hibernate, right, during them, yeah.

Okay.

Okay. This is a women's

podcast. We don't need sports metaphors. Just kidding. Sports or not. Yeah, I know.

Tiffany (32:27)
You're right, I don't know them. I don't

know them, so obviously that's not my jam. Anyways!

Kat (32:33)
We need to

watch more WNBA anyway.

Tiffany (32:35)
Yeah, I know, really.

I hear it's like pretty cool now. It's always been cool. Anyway, yeah. It's also still basketball though. Anyways, so, ⁓ so actually some birds do cache their nuts. I don't know why I laughed at that. Or their berries. ⁓ and yeah, which I didn't know. And others actually suck like sap from trees. So the

Kat (32:39)
Pretty exciting. I mean, it's always been cool.

Like squirrels, yeah.

Tiffany (33:04)
red bellied sapsucker I think is a bird that I just learned about and they're pretty cool. Yes. I wonder what color its belly is. Maybe purple. so ⁓ but still currently there's like less native land and less space for birds to do this. So winter is the perfect time for us to come in and give them food, which is why they were absolutely destroying. Yeah.

Kat (33:08)
Very aptly named, yeah.

Save the day.

Bonkers. Yeah, you bonkers

birds going on

Tiffany (33:34)
Yeah.

And apparently it's really good to do like, I'm going to talk about food quality in a bit, providing a wide variety is good. like dried meal worms. I've never tried that before. That's really good. Apparently they love their worms. Yup. dried fruit, seeds, suet. I'll tell you a story about my suet feeder in a minute. and then it's good to avoid filler food that

Kat (33:51)
protein. ⁓

Tiffany (34:02)
because a lot of these bird seed mixes, I'm learning, I didn't know this until I did this research, are a lot of filler food. Milo or me-lo is basically sorghum. It's like those little red, reddish-brownish balls. They're really small.

Kat (34:17)
Yeah,

you feed it like parrots and I mean like it's yes. Yeah.

Tiffany (34:21)
Yes, you see it everywhere, but those

apparently most songbirds don't even like them. They won't even eat them. It's just like filler. ⁓ corn, although I've kind of read some different things about like some birds do like cracked corn, but, millet is similar. So just, yeah. So apparently it's worth spending all of your money on bird food because Jesus Christ, I went cheap and now I know I can't do that anymore. Yeah.

Kat (34:26)
Okay. Okay.

interesting. Okay.

Feeding the birds, yeah.

They just spill it all on the

Hopefully.

Tiffany (34:51)
And

then it turns into a slurry. Anyway.

Kat (34:55)
Gross. So gross.

Tiffany (34:57)
⁓

But doing that can help attract a wide variety of bird species to your garden and also help them get through the winter months. So you're doing good then. Yeah. So super helpful. Yes. And then what else should we be doing if we are feeding the birds? So we can clean the feeders. That's like number one. And you've said this before, but

Kat (35:07)
Cool, okay, so it is good. Okay, feed the birds, okay.

Okay, fair.

Tiffany (35:23)
So you want to completely scrub out your feeders at least twice a year, probably more. ⁓ And between seasons, I know, I know. Between seasons is good too, but ⁓ yeah, twice a year is what I saw. ⁓ And obviously depends on the amount of moisture. So if you see any mold, definitely clean that shit out. No moisture. That's fair. ⁓

Kat (35:29)
that sounds low. Yeah, I'm wondering. Yeah.

I mean, in Albuquerque, there's like none. It's bone dry. Yeah. But I will tell my, I will

ask my dad if he, I know he cleans his hummingbird feeders, but I wonder about the other ones.

Tiffany (35:53)
Hummingbird

feeder is different. You're going to want to do that like every two days basically. Yeah, yeah, that's what it said. Yeah. And I think having a hummingbird feeder in a shady spot can help it not like go bad. Yeah. Right. And we're going to talk about that too. So use.

Kat (35:57)
Every time. Every week. Yeah, basically, yeah. At least every week, yeah.

Yeah, it doesn't grow mold in the... because it's sugar water. Yeah. Okay.

Tiffany (36:18)
like oxygen bleach, is funny because we've actually, it's like 10 % non-chlorinated bleach solution is what people were saying. And I'm like, non-chlorinated bleach, that springs a bell. yeah, it's oxygen bleach. We had a whole episode about oxygen bleach and green bleach. Yes. Yes, I'm bleaching. Yeah. Well, it does say like clean them out, wash them. I never use oxygen bleach. think I just use like vinegar, but, ⁓ and then let them dry completely and then you're good.

Kat (36:27)
Mm-hmm.

Avocados, yeah, or just leave them out in the sun for right wash them. Okay

Refill. Yeah. Okay.

Tiffany (36:50)
Yeah. ⁓ again, I think I already, I mentioned all that about the researching the kinds of food that birds like, so I can skip that part. It does say it's good. Like if you have sunflowers, not sunflowers, but like sunflower seed in one feeder, and then in the other one, you'll have like peanuts, I don't know, something else. Because different kinds of birds, different species are attracted to different

Kat (36:59)
Yeah.

Okay, switch it up. Yeah.

Tiffany (37:19)
foods and so that's less likely to have a bunch of different kinds of birds intermingling and spreading disease. So apparently that's better. Yeah.

Kat (37:25)
⁓ okay. Yeah, that makes

sense. Okay. My dad has like an Oriole feeder and a Finch feeder and like different, he does different types of food for different zones in his yard. So smart. Okay.

Tiffany (37:33)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good thing. ⁓

And putting suet out only in cold weather is good because suet can turn rancid if it's too hot, which glad I read that because I would have thrown that out there. It might be fine, but ⁓ it might not.

Kat (37:46)
Yeah.

My dad's dog likes to, yeah.

I mean, yeah,

I mean, depends on how quickly they eat it, right? My dad's dog, like, waits for the suet feeder to fall and then eats the suet because it's fat.

Tiffany (37:59)
Yeah.

I And that dog probably has massive diarrhea. Yeah. Well, okay, I'll tell my suet story. So I put mine out twice, and twice, either a possum or a raccoon has opened it up, climbed up the little tree, opened it up, wrapped it actually wrapped it around the tree somehow, opened it up, and they're not that easy to open these frickin... Yeah, I think. And gone.

Kat (38:08)
She does. Yeah, it's gross, but she loves it. Okay, tell your suit story.

No, it's probably a raccoon. Yeah. ⁓

Tiffany (38:33)
Just gone. was two-sided, double-sided, gone. That thing has got to have massive amounts of shit everywhere. I'm surprised there's not raccoon diarrhea everywhere.

Kat (38:35)
Like a milky way bar, just straight down on Skullet. I'm sure. I'm sure it's in your next-door neighbor's yard, but...

Raccoons are freaking- have you seen the videos where people like grease up their ⁓ bird feeder poles so that the squirrels can't climb up them and the squirrels just look like strippers they're like going down like that's so good yeah

Tiffany (38:55)
No.

my god, that's hilarious.

I love that.

The squirrels don't bother ours, but I think it's because there aren't like a bunch of trees around it or something. But you can actually get a squirrel feeder, which I considered. I know. That's like slippery slope, but.

Kat (39:15)
Yeah, I wouldn't.

Did I tell you what I saw the other day in my yard? A squirrel carrying a pork rib bone.

Tiffany (39:23)
No.

Kat (39:30)
And it took it and it ran like I've got these squirrels on the fence that like to just tease my dogs, but it ran up the fence and it looked at me holding this bone. It was like, you know, this big on its face rib, pork rib. And it showed it to me. And then it took it up the tree and it put it in the crook of the tree in my neighbor's yard and it ran off. And the next day it came back and got it and showed it to me and ran out. And I was like, you're eating.

Tiffany (39:31)
my god.

Yeah.

my god.

That's insane!

Kat (39:54)
Because

squirrels here are monsters. pork ribs.

Tiffany (39:57)
Wow.

I've never heard of that before. Do they eat meat? Apparently.

Kat (40:04)
There's a guy like one of the things we have so much trouble with here is that people just throw chicken bones and stuff around. Yeah. And like our dog is just like, I asked like a guy was like, yeah, I throw the chicken bones out for the squirrels because they clean them off. And so apparently they do. Squirrels are vicious. They don't do anything. I mean, probably not. We should probably do an episode on squirrels, but they're great. I love watching them.

Tiffany (40:11)
Yeah, we had that problem with Ruby.

Uh-huh.

That's so interesting.

Down with squirrels. Keep hitting my stupid mic. Just kidding. I know, I love squirrels actually.

Kat (40:34)
They're funny, they're smart. But anyway, OK. how she say squirrel? It's the hardest word to say in the English language. Squirrel.

Tiffany (40:35)
Mm-hmm and the way Charlie says squirrel is the cutest thing. I hope I can say it. I know It's

like Squeer-l is how she says it something like that. I can't I can't do it, but it's so cute It's like every time she says it. I just want to die Uh-huh. Yeah

Kat (40:49)
Squirrel.

You can tell how she's spelling it in her head. Cause that's a weird one to spell.

In French, it's Equeroy, which is probably where we get it from. Equeroy. Well, because it's the Q U and the, and Equeroy. I don't know. Equeroy.

Tiffany (41:04)
How is that? Where are we getting?

Hmm. See that sounds

very different to me, but I don't speak French. Okay.

Kat (41:15)
It sounds like Squirrel to me. Okay, fine.

We're talking about birds. Back to the birds.

Tiffany (41:20)
Everybody. Yes, you back to the parts. All

right. So yeah, anyway, the stupid raccoon. So I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to figure that out. But apparently I don't have to figure it out until winter. So I'm ⁓ and another thing about hummingbird feeders. Don't buy like yours truly hummingbird food. Because I went to this like bird store, which because it's like a local store and I wanted to support them, whatever. I don't know.

Kat (41:31)
You've got time. Six months.

Okay.

Yeah, okay.

I'm throw out Wild

Birds Unlimited and Albuquerque. Go there. That's where dad goes. Yeah.

Tiffany (41:53)
nice. Awesome.

I don't know anything about hummingbirds. So I was like, OK, we'll get some supplies. I'll get a little feeder. I'll get some food. ⁓ that sounds like that would make my life easier because I don't really know what hummingbirds eat. I get home. Well, I'd had it for a couple of weeks when I finally put the feeder up. It's sugar. And I spent eight. Yeah, this one doesn't, luckily. But I spent

Kat (42:15)
Yeah, it's just sugar. Sometimes it has red food coloring in it. I don't think they

do that anymore, but yeah.

Tiffany (42:22)
eight dollars on a little container of sugar and you look at the ingredients and it says finely ground sucrose that's table sugar

It's like, dang it, man.

Kat (42:36)
So you basically just,

could probably add it to cocktails, a simple syrup and just like.

Tiffany (42:40)
No,

100%. That is the same thing.

Kat (42:42)
call it a hummingbird

cocktail, that'll be $20, thank you.

Tiffany (42:46)
I was like, are you crazy? I was so mad. But yeah, was also like, this person's a genius, whoever's marketing this stuff. Because it's like easy. Yeah, Elon Musk. It's like, it's easy. It's like all this stuff. Yes, yes. Anyway, so don't do that. It's not powdered necessarily, but like table sugar. Granulated, yeah.

Kat (42:49)
So you just make simple syrup.

probably Elon.

Just add water, yeah.

powdered sugar. okay, ⁓ so hummingbird food.

Okay, so you just, but

you just look up like, it's not, it's not, okay, because I was gonna say it's not like simple syrup where it's a cup to a cup. It's like, okay.

Tiffany (43:14)
Yeah, there is a proportion you need to, yeah.

No, no, no. It's

a lot lighter than that, but I couldn't, I don't know. Yeah. I think there's like a couple of different.

Kat (43:23)
Yeah, I was gonna say.

versions recipes.

Tiffany (43:29)
Yeah,

So yeah, because this was like three scoops, which this just said scoops. And I was like, I'm going to go with a teaspoon.

Kat (43:40)
Yeah,

scoop a tablespoon for me. It's tablespoon, but it didn't provide a Bastards.

Tiffany (43:43)
Yeah, maybe I did tablespoon. No,

I know. I was like, not even a scoop in your sucrose. But yeah, for one cup, that's what it was. So, I don't know.

Kat (43:49)
You got obese hummingbirds? What are you doing?

Okay, okay, so like

three teaspoons for a cup of water. Okay, let's say so a tablespoon because a teaspoon three to okay anyway.

Tiffany (44:00)
Yeah. Yeah.

Wait, three teaspoons is one tablespoon? Really? I didn't know that.

Kat (44:08)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

I took home ec four times because it was the only elective I could take in middle school because I took advanced math and they conflicted. there were lots of, yeah, and I took a lot of home ec. It was great.

Tiffany (44:19)
my God.

they're doing home ec anymore which is so sad it's the only reason I know how to like in school like it's the only reason I know how to sew a button

Kat (44:28)
Yeah.

I I don't even know how to sew a button, but I know how to... I mean we obviously had very different home economic classes, but I learned that three teaspoons is a tablespoon.

Tiffany (44:42)
Right,

yeah. We did very little cooking, I remember. Okay, ours was mostly sewing and I feel like we did some personal finance stuff too, which is useful. I think it's been a while. ⁓

Kat (44:46)
we did all so much good.

What? Lucky. We did like family planning maybe. think we watched

birthing happen on the TV once and I was like...

Tiffany (45:01)
In

Home Ec?

Kat (45:05)
Yeah, I still remember my home ec teacher. was wonderful. I loved her, but but I just take it four times. because.

Tiffany (45:06)
Who knows?

OK, yeah. Welfare,

you were her favorite student by far. You knew every answer.

Kat (45:15)
I think she hated me.

She hated me the first year because I was dumb as a rock. And then she nominated me for student of the week or something in eighth grade. And I was like, no, she said it. If I had a daughter, it would be you or something. And I was like, jeez, Tracy. I hadn't thought about that in a long time. Anyway, Tracy, shout out to Tracy. I don't know what happened to her. I wonder if she's retired.

Tiffany (45:23)
Aww. There you go.

Whoa! my god! Damn!

That's sweet.

Yeah, these teachers make such an impact. If they're good, they're good. If they're bad, they're also impactful. Yeah. Okay. So I have just, you know, wrapping up here, six different types of feeders that according to the Audubon Society, everyone should have in their home. Obviously, if you have like a- Welfare, welfare,

Kat (45:42)
They're hilarious. Yeah, very impactful. Yeah, she's great.

Okay.

outside your home. Don't feed birds in your home. Problems will

ensue.

Tiffany (46:03)
Yes.

If you have a balcony, don't want six, you know?

Kat (46:10)
I was just thinking, I'm like, could I put them all in my front yard? Probably. Okay.

Tiffany (46:14)
Probably. Yeah, the cats are a problem.

Kat (46:15)
except the cat next door. I

have to get a BB gun for Simon. Anyway, okay.

Tiffany (46:20)
that was actually, I skipped over that point, but keep your cats inside, especially in the spring, because cats do actually, that's not a myth, millions of birds per year. Yeah, and bells on their collar, some people think that they help and they don't. Like some people think, that will warn the bird. No, it doesn't warn the bird. The bird's probably like, yeah, birds probably like, who's tweeting? Yeah.

Kat (46:27)
They raid nests. Millions. Yeah, they're killers. Cats are killers.

No, cats move slow enough that they won't. And it's listening to it's like, what else is going on? Yeah, there's a car

horn honking down the street and a cat bell is going to. No, OK.

Tiffany (46:46)
Right.

Yeah. So tube feeder, which is you can use like seeds in that. And ⁓ I have that one. I have four out of six, which makes me so happy. Yeah. This one I have to completely take apart because it did get moldy and I have to like unscrew it with a screwdriver. But I found these like little cover things that hang over and it blocks the rain.

Kat (46:58)
But look at you, killing it.

to keep the water off of

it. That's smart. Yeah, I think my dad has one of those. Yeah.

Tiffany (47:15)
And I think it helps with squirrels. Yeah.

So, so far, so good. ⁓ A suet feeder is another option. Has not gone well so far. Thistle feeder, I do have that too. Niger is like a whole thing, but Niger seed is what most people call it. And that thistle is not Niger, but Niger is trademarked. It's very confusing. It's very confusing. Yes. Niger is from like, ⁓ I want to say...

Kat (47:38)
wild okay

Tiffany (47:45)
I don't think it's North. Well, yeah, it is Africa, but I don't think it's, it's not Sub-Saharan Africa. ⁓ I think it's maybe North Africa. I don't, maybe I'm thinking, I don't know. I might be mixing it up. But anyway, it's from somewhere on that continent that I can't recall at the moment, but ⁓ Ethiopia? No, I don't know. Anyway, so yeah, anywho's. ⁓

Kat (47:45)
Not Nigeria, weirdly.

Okay.

Okay.

This enormous continent, yeah, yeah.

That's sub-Saharan, isn't it? Yeah.

Tiffany (48:15)
So yeah, you can buy Niger seed though. It's a whole thing. Or thistle. They're similar, not exactly the same. I think they do the same thing. ⁓ Then you can have nectar feeders, like a hummingbird feeder or a fruit feeder where you can actually jam an orange slice. That's what I was going to ask you. I figured.

Kat (48:33)
So that's what my dad does for the Orioles. They're

back. He thinks he saw juvenile Orioles last week, so he's put the oranges with the grape jelly back out in the little glass jars.

Tiffany (48:45)
Yes! What's the jelly? They just eat it? Okay, because I saw some of these feeders and it had a little bowl for jelly and you can slam an orange slice into it and not slice an orange half.

Kat (48:48)
They do. It's like sugar. I mean, it's the same as sugar. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, he has a whole crate of oranges and he slices them. He puts the jelly right on top of the orange for the Orioles. Yeah. Yeah, maybe we should call dad. Butch. I'll ask him for pictures. I'll be like, yeah, fun. We bought him for Christmas or his birthday a couple of years ago, bird cameras to set up so you can watch. He has not. They are sitting in the box on the table.

Tiffany (49:01)
my god.

⁓ okay. I should have interviewed your father for this. That's awesome. Yeah, cool. Phone a dad.

yeah, my brother-in-law has one of those. Yeah, they're very expensive.

Kat (49:25)
I know my sisters and I went in on it together. He hasn't set them up. So daddy.

Tiffany (49:29)
Evie,

that's too technologically advanced, so maybe you should have...

Kat (49:32)
No, he's

a freaking rocket scientist. He's technologically advanced. has little... He just hasn't done it. I don't know. I'm pretty sure. That's... I'm pretty sure he does. Yeah, earlier. Yeah, so... Yeah.

Tiffany (49:35)
⁓ he just doesn't want to. Okay. Maybe he has ADHD.

We were talking about ADHD before we started recording. That's where that came from. But yeah,

you never know. But yeah, give, yeah, they help with Orioles and, or they bring Orioles and Tanagers and other types of birds. So ⁓ send me pictures because I'm curious. Have them.

Kat (49:52)
I'll get him tested for his eight 75th birthday.

I will, I

will find you daddy's oral picture. I'll see if he has any of this. Maybe he'll listen to this. He'll figure out how to listen to podcasts. Listen to this episode.

Tiffany (50:07)
Nice. Because Baltimore Orioles.

There you go. See, I'm telling you, he's not as technologically advanced as you think. He's just old, and that's okay.

Kat (50:19)
Okay, okay, he's

pretty on top. You're right though, I am biased. He's my father, so.

Tiffany (50:27)
He's just

old and that's, hard sometimes. I'm old. I'm not, but I am like technologically a Luddite.

Kat (50:32)
I, when someone's like, ⁓

moving over to blue sky, I'm like, without me. I cannot start another social media. I cannot. can't. Blurred ED was a tablet is hard for me. Anyway, yeah.

Tiffany (50:38)
Dude, that could be from the Terminator movies. Like, I don't know what you're talking about. No, absolutely not. Yeah.

No, exactly. Anyway, so then there's also two others, ground feeders, which seem really cool. They sit like a few inches off the ground. Obviously, I think some of them have, yes, I think some of them do have protection for squirrels, but ⁓ I don't know. Like little Kate, I don't know what, but ⁓ that was really interesting. I was like, ⁓ I kind of want to look into that. And then there's also hopper feeders where they actually hop on them and they've

Kat (50:59)
Ooh.

Squirrels. Okay.

Interesting.

Tiffany (51:22)
seeds come out. I don't know what the difference is or why, but they exist, so...

Kat (51:26)
The

train that. Well, OK, you think about like a lot of birds. Like grackles around here, robins do a lot of ground hunting, right? So if they hop on it, that gives them that kind of simulation, I would assume. Interesting. There's so many birds. Yeah.

Tiffany (51:36)
Mm-hmm.

maybe. Yeah, maybe that's the point. Yeah.

But yeah, so in summary, the nice thing about this is that you don't need like a big backyard. You can do it from your balcony. I actually I have that one pasted to my window and it's not like I have a ton of bird poop everywhere. So try it. I mean, it doesn't I don't know why the hell not or hummingbirds. They don't poop everywhere.

Kat (52:01)
Right.

Yeah.

Hummingbirds are wild. I'll send you some videos of the hummingbird fights in my dad's backyard, for sure. they are. ⁓ my God. It's like, they're wild. And they don't care. You're just sitting there like sipping some iced tea and watching these hummingbirds dive bomb each other from two feet away. My dad's backyard is a, you love my dad's backyard, for sure.

Tiffany (52:15)
Apparently they're really territorial.

my god.

I'm

I would. I need to see it one day soon. ⁓ I also will say that reminded me that I saw, I'm pretty sure, a Robin orgy the other day. It was...

Kat (52:48)
⁓ yikes.

I feel like that would be scarring.

Tiffany (52:54)
It was so wild I was outside working in my yard and there's a tree next to me and it was like six five or six Robins just went wild and they were all like Slamming into each other and falling to the ground and then it seemed clear that they were trying to mate and but then they would fight each other over who they were gonna mate with they didn't give two shits that I was right there and I was just like

Kat (53:18)
weird.

They're like, we're busy lady.

Yikes.

Tiffany (53:23)
just like, ⁓ my

god. And it was such a ruckus that I was like, I feel like I need to give them some privacy for a minute. And no. Yes, it was so weird. And then I left. I was like, I gotta go. But then like five minutes later, they were gone. So I don't fricking know. Really? But I didn't know they fought like that.

Kat (53:29)
Yeah, like I don't want to watch this. I need to give them privacy for my sake. Yeah.

Yeah, laters. Yeah, birds are quick. There's... We have a lot of white wing...

I didn't know that either. White wing doves here that we have a lot of, they will get on a ledge or a fence post or whatever and like flick their tails like this. And that's like, I'm horny. And then they'll come and I'm like, if I see a white wing dove doing that, I'm like, laters, I don't want to watch it. Like, get a room, get a room. But...

Tiffany (54:00)
wild

Gotta leave.

Kat (54:07)
Yeah, it's fascinating.

Tiffany (54:09)
is so interesting, which also made me feel good because I've been doing so much work on my yard to put like natives and this is our space now.

Kat (54:15)
They're like.

This is our love

hotel. Yeah. You made a heartbreak hotel for the Robins. Slow clap, slow clap. No, that's huge though. I mean, cause the death of birds is a huge, not to bring it back to greening up my act, but it's a huge problem in the United States.

Tiffany (54:22)
you

like, all right, all right, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it

is. Like, their original land is gone, if you think about it. They used to have all the world and-

Kat (54:45)
Yeah.

Planes,

planes and forests and yeah.

Tiffany (54:50)
Yeah.

And I will say I planted Black-eyed Susans and the little goldfinches love to land on them and then like swing around and eat the seeds. And it's so fun. It's so fun. So even on a freaking balcony or whatever you have, plant some Black-eyed Susans and you'll be in love.

Kat (55:01)
That's so cute. Yeah.

I love it. Birding is the millennial clubbing.

Tiffany (55:14)
Yeah. Yeah. And I want to actually try like

birding because I'm it's fun. It's really like a house wren. How would a not house wren house finch. Why was it's not even pretty. But I was like, oh my God, a house finch. Yeah. This one might have been a female, so it wasn't that pretty.

Kat (55:23)
Yes.

I love finches. And there's, yeah. Well, I have one.

We have a Carolina Wren, I think it's a brown, it's this little brown bird and you're like, and then it sings and you're like, ⁓ my God, that song. Yeah.

Tiffany (55:34)
huh.

Yes,

yes, yeah, it's amazing. It's so fun. yeah, apparently we do too. I've never noticed or seen one or... ⁓ okay, okay. Gotcha.

Kat (55:43)
We have mockingbirds here too that are...

Well, they're the Texas state bird, honey, so you gotta bring out your guns and your barbecue before the mockingbird will come out, probably. Just

mention it was Willie Nelson's 92nd birthday recently and they'll come singing. We all care deeply about this in Texas. Yeah, you do. They have a broad range of territory.

Tiffany (55:59)
Okay, perfect. Nice. Yeah, I didn't realize we even had any, it's what I read. Yeah.

Yeah, makes sense. So I think ours is probably the cardinal. It's like every state bird is a cardinal. There's a really funny article from years ago about the state birds and what they should be and why they shouldn't all be cardinals. Oh, man, I'll link that because it's so funny. Such a good article. What? A cardinal? Oh, OK. think you're say cardinal.

Kat (56:13)
Cool. Okay.

Well, in New Mexico... Okay, link that. But you know what it is in New Mexico? The Road Runner. We don't really have Cardinals. I guess we do,

not really. No, it's the Road Runner. Which is a freaking prehistoric dinosaur.

Tiffany (56:42)
That

is crazy actually, I've never seen one and I... yeah.

Kat (56:48)
They're like taking over the city now. When I was a kid, it was like, a road runner. And now it's like, frick, another road runner. They eat lizards. They're pretty wild. I'll find you this video, Sean sent me about a road runner that like got rehabilitated by a woman and she let it go and it keeps coming back and like jumping on her head and bringing her presents and stuff. Road runners are wild though. They're like little dinosaurs, but they're like chicken sized. So.

Tiffany (56:50)
⁓

my god. That's cool.

⁓ my god.

That's awesome.

Yeah, I always think of them as bigger, but I know they're not.

Kat (57:15)
Yeah,

no, Looney Tunes lied to you. They're not blue. They're brown, but they're cool. I'll send you videos.

Tiffany (57:19)
Yeah, fair.

Yeah, I

do. We have a lot of things to share. Cool. All right. Well, that was it. Yeah, right? I was like, man, this is going be stop hitting my mic. I was like, this is going to be so short. But nope. Right? I should have known.

Kat (57:24)
Yeah. Awesome. Okay. Look, it was another hour. See, when we talk about things we like.

Now we can talk about birds for hours. There's

a song by The Innocence Mission that I like when I was writing up the show notes of like what we're, I was like the wonder of birds. And I think I will link that in the Instagram post if I can find it.

Tiffany (57:53)
Yes.

I'm gonna put that... Let's see. What is it? What did you say?

Kat (58:00)
The

Wonder of Birds. And it's song about like learning to fly. I don't know. I love that song. It's from the 80s.

Tiffany (58:09)
Nice. Okay, sweet.

Love it. All right. Do you know what you're talking about next week or are you not sure yet?

Kat (58:16)
I think I'm going to talk about, ⁓ Ridwell, ⁓ well, and by nothing groups, like the art of tiny, because I'm going through it right now, like getting rid of stuff, the joy of, the joy of getting rid of stuff in an ecological manner. Cause we've talked about Ridwell, we've talked about Goodwill, we've talked about by nothing groups. So, ⁓ and maybe you can contribute some about free cycle, but we're just going to.

Tiffany (58:21)
Yes!

huh.

Yes, I love that so much.

huh.

Kat (58:44)
just effuse about how wonderful these things are. So that's my plan.

Tiffany (58:49)
Yes, okay,

that's awesome. I love it. All right, so.

Please, if you aren't a Patreon member yet, go join us over there because we are going to do some really cool stuff coming up. We're probably going to talk about ADHD. And yeah, get the app. Apparently Patreon app is a lot better. Just heads up. Yeah. So.

Kat (58:59)
Cue the bird song.

Look into it because we're going to.

Okay, good to know. cool.

Yeah. Well, thanks for listening and we'll see you next week. Enjoy birds.

Tiffany (59:22)
Thank you! Bye!

Yay!