00:00.00
katcoxwriter
According to a survey by the mesothelioma society published on asbestos.com 55% of american women and 59% of american men think that the Fda regulates cosmetic ingredients. But they're wrong as the Fda has clarified the law does not require cosmetic products and ingredients other than color additives to have Fda approval before they go on the market unlike food and drug production makeup and beauty companies basically regulate themselves.

00:18.90
Tiffany Verbeck
Who.

00:36.90
katcoxwriter
This can mean they use products that they that may make the product work better in terms of staying power bacterial or mold resistance and even fragrance but they can have serious consequences to a user's health. But as tree hugger points out there's more to makeup production than how it affects its human users chemical ingredients. Animal testing irresponsible sourcing water use air pollution transportation causing Greenhouse gases and plastic pollution are also big parts of the makeup industry the chemicals in your lipstick and face makeup may kill coral reefs and other aquatic life.

01:12.60
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, oh god.

01:12.52
katcoxwriter
Beyond that they may also give you cancer inter beauty counter a supposedly clean brand that tries to combat all of these issues but does it work and is it worth it. Let's dig in welcome to greening up my act. So for sources today I try to keep it a little lighter than usual I opened a bunch of windows and then realized this is one of those topics that you get into the fine line between sustainability which is the focus of our podcast and. Health issues. Yes, so when you search toxic makeup you kind of you know there's a lot to that and they tend to dovetail the the chemicals that are toxic to humans tend to also be bad for the environment. But I focus this on eco-friendliness and not health effects. So.

01:49.55
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes I figured aha.

02:06.62
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, good.

02:08.81
katcoxwriter
Shorter shorter ah range of sources there. So the first one is beautycounter.com that's their website then it was also that survey from asbestos.com sustainable earth had ah a list of cosmetic ingredients. Kiteest.code Uk had some news about how to cosmetics impact the environment tree hugger had the environmental impact of cosmetics. The coconut mama had homemade natural makeup recipes and health line had a couple of tips in their toxic makeup rundown.

02:35.87
Tiffany Verbeck
Sure.

02:44.18
katcoxwriter
Okay, so first what? Well I should also preface this by saying we're getting into the holiday season and I know we just did our black friday but a lot of people give makeup as gifts over the holidays and so if you're trying to figure out if what you're giving people is sustainable or not this may be a good episode for you so all right.

02:52.94
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah.

03:02.34
katcoxwriter
What is Beauty counter. It is a beauty brand committed to quote unquote Clean Beauty Now we love the term clean because it's green hooey. We love it because we're like what does that even mean, um, but they go into what this means for them. Their theory is that Beauty should be good for you.

03:11.25
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, do we it means nothing.

03:21.46
katcoxwriter
So again, focusing on mostly the health aspect. They've developed a never list of ingredients that aren't banned by the Fda which I just spoke about but they may not be safe for use in makeup or other products and you may recognize some of these ingredients bha and bht. These are 2 ingredients that extend shelf life but have been shown to be carcinogenic and disrupt hormones edta helps make it a product shelf stable but causes skin and eye irritation formaldehyde which can cause cancer and asthma. Parains which can prevent mold and bacteria growth but are hormone disruptors phthalates which can cause hormone disruption and may cause early onset puberty. These are often used in fragrances which is why when somebody just says fragrance. You don't want to trust it on the label. Ah yeah.

04:10.11
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, and we learned that it's the thing that makes the fragrance last longer on your skin. So if if you have a product that does that it probably possibly possibly probably.

04:16.10
katcoxwriter
Exactly Yes, probably has it? Yeah I opened my ah sink a minute ago to get a dishwashing pot out of it and just smelled the fragrance of all of the products that people avat like I was like great great all of these.

04:32.56
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes.

04:34.14
katcoxwriter
Under my sink which I'm trying to get rid of. But yeah, our trash bags smell great because I let instacart pick them for me is too bad. No it's a headache and a glass. Yep for sure. Ah, pfas are favorites. They're forever chemicals. Ah they harm our waterways but they can also cause cancer Immune System damage and hormone disruption.

04:40.87
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah I can't do those I Just like hurts my head. No yeah, ah huh.

04:53.75
katcoxwriter
There and everything sodium laurel sulfate and sodium Lori Sulfate which are surfactants which make things stick to your skin basically but can irritate skin or cause they cause foaming I guess actually is what surfactants do hopefully your makeup doesn't foam. But anyway um, talc talc.

04:55.13
Tiffany Verbeck
Um.

05:00.83
Tiffany Verbeck
Um.

05:11.72
katcoxwriter
Ah, yeah, there's a lot of baby powders and Talcum powders that they no longer use Talc because it's been linked to Asbestos Contamination Asbestos is a known carcinogen and Tricklessan which you will find in your antibacterial soaps but causes reproductive harm and is toxic to aquatic organisms.

05:18.90
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes.

05:27.72
Tiffany Verbeck
I Thought they banned Trichle sand.

05:29.89
katcoxwriter
I believe in soap but you can still use it in makeup products. Yeah yeah, um, so this is just some they have a more extensive list of beautycounter.com but this is some of the things that are on their never list which sounds kind of great beyond creating makeup that is supposed to be better for you.

05:33.54
Tiffany Verbeck
God Are you serious.

05:43.14
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

05:48.92
katcoxwriter
Not containing these chemicals. They also state that they're committed to responsible sourcing sustainable packaging and climate goals as well as giving back to the community one. Ah, one of the things I make very clear is they don't test on animals so that isn't an environmental concern if you know obviously but.

05:58.75
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

06:08.44
katcoxwriter
That that is something we may want to get into is the environmental impact of testing on animals. Um, yeah I go back and forth on that a lot because I think it's so unethical to test, especially makeup products on animals. But there's also so much research that could not have been done.

06:12.83
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah I would be interested to.

06:28.30
katcoxwriter
Just because of ethics I I don't know I'm I'm not for it. But it's one of those necessary evils I feel like sometimes the vegans. Yeah, it is the vegans are going to come for me on that which I get which is fine come from me vegans. It's okay I admit okay on their website Beauty counter lists a whole slew of ways they're transparent.

06:29.89
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, right.

06:34.80
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, it it's complex for sure.

06:47.79
katcoxwriter
In their responsible sourcing. Um they disclose their supply chain under the terms of the California transparency and supply chain act. Ah, which I think I'm not sure if you're a company that I I didn't nail down where they do their production.

07:06.22
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

07:06.97
katcoxwriter
So if they're in California they probably have to do that. They probably don't have to do it if they sell to California customers. So this is an extra step that they may be taking um this helps them make sure they're not using slave labor to get their ah raw materials which is super important and.

07:14.84
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

07:21.40
Tiffany Verbeck
Wow.

07:23.31
katcoxwriter
They also um, try to get their raw materials from renewable sources. So like Mica which is what makes most I makeup shiny and powdery is mind. But yeah, yeah, oh ah, yeah.

07:35.33
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh that's so interesting I have that in my backyard I only know that because I have a geologist friend Julia who listens to this podcast. Um and she was like oh yeah, that's my god I was like what because it's everywhere. It's like so shiny I know I was like m d y.

07:41.48
katcoxwriter
Hi Julia.

07:46.22
katcoxwriter
Um, well maybe you can make your own makeup with it.

07:51.46
Tiffany Verbeck
It's just paste it to my eyelids.

07:52.20
katcoxwriter
Yeah, they also list things like vanilla um palm oil they're on a palm oil. Ah some kind of board for for sustainable palm oil which is we talked about in the Halloween episode about candy and palm oil is really just deforestation and.

08:03.40
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay, um.

08:09.50
katcoxwriter
<unk>ans are endangered because of the mining of palm oil. Ah there other sustainability goals are stated on their website which include one hundred percent of their packaging will be recycled recyclable refillable reused or compostable by twenty twenty five.

08:15.21
Tiffany Verbeck
Um.

08:26.59
katcoxwriter
They also have a goal in their production of achieving net zero greenhouse gas emissions by no later than 2050 which can be a hairy thing because Net Zero could just mean you're planting a tree for every you know.

08:26.92
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

08:40.51
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, is that like buying carbon offsets which has been um, debunked as Green Hooey or is it like actually okay.

08:43.91
katcoxwriter
Yeah, they have a whole list. So I think it goes beyond that so one of the things I use beauty counter a lot of their products have changed over in the past few years from being offered in plastic packaging to glass.

09:01.26
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

09:03.24
katcoxwriter
They explain and this is just word for word from their website. Did you know in most cities glasses recycled more easily than plastic if you listen to our podcast. You know that? Yeah, unlike Virgin plastic glass doesn't leach harmful toxic chemicals that contribute to greenhouse gas and doesn't run the risk of ending up in our waterways.

09:10.23
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh yes I know that now.

09:22.97
katcoxwriter
We did the math and found that considering energy water and waste impacts. It was preferable to launch our countertime line. That's there 1 of their skin care lines in glass reducing the line's fossil fuel use by an estimated 35% and greenhouse gas footprint by an estimated 38? We've been transitioned to a new glass supplier closer to home. Now every package travels an estimated fifty two hundred miles fewer than it did before so that's pretty good numbers I think um.

09:45.74
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh well I would love to know how they did their math though because I do know that producing glass generally produces a lot more greenhouse gases manufacturing glass than plastic. But if they.

09:58.70
katcoxwriter
Um, yes, again, we went into the glass if they're using recycled glass. That's another thing so I would like to know how they got their numbers too. But those are pretty good that sounds nice. You know at least they're thinking about it too there.

10:08.10
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, um, yeah.

10:14.66
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah.

10:16.11
katcoxwriter
Also phasing out single-use plastic in other ways. Um, so sometimes when you get beauty products you get like a little spatula measuring thing. They don't have that they don't use overcaps lid inserts. They don't have packaged literature planned and printed on plastic and they don't They don't sell cleansing cloth towels anymore.

10:25.36
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah.

10:35.57
katcoxwriter
So makeup or Mover wipes and um, they also have gotten rid of the outside boxes that most of the jars come in so they have a new way of shipping their glass products so it uses less cardboard and less materials and no plastic. So yes, another thing they're committed to is.

10:36.00
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

10:49.61
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ok I like that.

10:52.76
katcoxwriter
Education. So and and one way they're doing this direct to the consumer is they're taking part in something called how to recycle and they have labels on each of their products that tell you how to recycle them so you don't have to figure it out to already tell you? yeah.

11:05.16
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah, that's nice.

11:09.80
katcoxwriter
Also have a refillable program that they're launching so you can send it back for a refill and they're starting a package packaging collection program to help recycle the hard to recycle stuff. So yeah, these are these are big steps I think um.

11:19.41
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh very cool. Okay, love both of those things.

11:27.47
katcoxwriter
And I couldn't find anything debunking that they do this? um and we'll get into that in our is it really sustainable section but it sounds like they're actually doing the work which is nice right? Okay, does it work. It's makeup.

11:37.99
Tiffany Verbeck
Cool, Very cool. Yeah.

11:44.52
katcoxwriter
Ah, there are also a lot of products in the Beauty counter line. So their's skincare bath and body makeup sunscreen moisturizers I Just talk about their makeup in this episode um does it work. Yes, the makeup works.

11:44.59
Tiffany Verbeck
I.

11:57.60
Tiffany Verbeck
Um.

12:02.73
katcoxwriter
I Use their Foundation Concealer Blush Mascara eyebrow gel eyes shadow and Lip gloss. They have a bunch of colors and shades for different skin tones which is important an important part of sustainability to me is that they're inclusive. Um, their makeup goes on light and it tends to stay although they don't sell waterproof or super long-lasting anything because the chemicals used to make those are the bad ones. Yeah, 100%. So if you're looking for a lip stain that's going to stay on Forever This is not your brand.

12:22.27
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, I was just going to say Thank God because I know they use p fast to make waterproof stuff I think yeah, okay yeah, your.

12:34.30
katcoxwriter
Which good I mean you let's phase out the lipsticks that last forever they've been phasing out a lot of their eye shadows recently which I don't know why I I had eyes shadow palettes from them that I loved and they don't sell. They have 1 eyes shadow palette. They also used to have like a liquid eyeshaow that they quit selling. And they also no longer sell any pencils so they don't have eyeliner pencils or eyebrow pencils. Yeah, those are 2 the things I use a lot. Um and I was kind of like why but it sounds like it's because they can't produce them sustainably or without the chemicals. So.

12:54.60
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

12:57.27
Tiffany Verbeck
Interesting.

13:05.79
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

13:09.25
katcoxwriter
Ah, have noticed recently that some other their products, especially the Liquid Foundation Liquid eyeshaows and eyebrow gel. They start to smell kind of off I don't know if that's because they don't last as long because they they're quote unquote natural. They don't have the the shelf-stable you know parabens and things in them.

13:19.46
Tiffany Verbeck
Huh.

13:26.10
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh right? like the preservatives. Yeah, what do they smell like oh how interesting yeah because that wouldn't happen with my regular like preservative full.

13:27.75
katcoxwriter
They don't have preservative chemicals. Yeah, the other thing though is I don't know if just a little rancid you know, just off just a little musty. Yes I've never so yeah, yeah, I've never smelled l'real smell bad I mean like.

13:45.65
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, yeah.

13:46.26
katcoxwriter
I am bad at keeping makeup for way longer than you're supposed to so sometimes it's like okay that smells like back to your ash throw away. Yeah exactly. But the other thing is that I buy from a representative. Um.

13:48.67
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, same? yeah, it's probably like a good thing because then you have a reason to actually get rid of it Once It's expired. Okay.

14:04.32
katcoxwriter
And she might I'm I'm not sure how this program works anymore. It used to be and I'll go in this in a second. Um she may have just had her stashtu law I know my mom sold Mary K in like the 80 s and she would just have like a stash of makeup that you're supposed to sell and if you don't sell it. You know we just had makeup to play in basically. But.

14:16.57
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, oh okay gotcha.

14:23.41
katcoxwriter
It can you know you can keep it for a long time so it may just be that her stash was older but my sister and I have both noticed the slight smell. It's not overpowering and neither of us have had breakouts or other issues from it. So it doesn't seem to be that big of a deal. Okay is Beauty Counter easy to use.

14:26.54
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

14:42.46
katcoxwriter
Yeah, sure if you know how to put on makeup. It's pretty straightforward. Um, they don't have pumps the way that other makeup does. It's It's a little bit like when you get to the bottom of the jar. It's It's a little harder to like open and you know get the less of the product out because they have these kind of unopenable glass.

15:01.99
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah gotcha.

15:02.36
katcoxwriter
Things for their makeup. Um, which keeps it from getting bacteria in it which I like but you know for for like the foundation. Um, that would be my gripe about their packaging is that I can't get the the last of it out excuse me a hundred percent

15:16.50
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah I like to use every last bit for sure.

15:22.26
katcoxwriter
Um, okay, so now I'm going to talk about the salespeople so many you know like Avon or Mary Kay they have brand advocates and for a long time. You couldn't get beauty counter in stores and you you had to buy through the website and basically the brand advocate had a link.

15:33.87
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

15:40.29
katcoxwriter
And you ordered through them off the website. Um, but I got introduced to it through my twin sister hi Julia and she had a friend who was selling it. So it's kind of nice to have this because then you have ah a person I mean it's not local to me. She's local in Cleveland but I can ask her questions. She'll send me samples. You know if I I'm I'm like I have no idea what color foundation to get she'll send me samples but they they are now sold in alta stores for sure. Um, so you can go play around in the makeup too and I still feel like I need to buy from my representative because I know she's got a business going.

15:59.58
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah.

16:02.67
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

16:17.19
katcoxwriter
It did feel a little ml in me for a while I did feel kind of like okay do I have to buy you know the bane of every 30 to forty year old woman's existence is knowing someone in in an l in mlm who needs you to buy their products and you know takes you to their party and forces you into it right? So there's that.

16:17.45
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, right.

16:32.00
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, right, right? right? right? right? right? right? I've actually never been invited to 1

16:36.29
katcoxwriter
Excuse me. Oh I Definitely have been to a doterra one I've been to the what's the kitchen stuff one. Yeah I Think that's a loose definition of it I know that it is people.

16:48.10
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, oh pampered Chef That's true, never mind I have is Pamper Chef Really an mlm.

16:57.99
katcoxwriter
It's you know it's like tupperware right? you get points for something you have to buy it through representatives so they get money off of it. It's kind of like a um authorized dealer kind of thing I don't know about that. That's that's another thing with Beauty counter. She's not trying to get us to sell for her.

16:59.26
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah.

17:07.96
Tiffany Verbeck
Do you get money if you bring people in.

17:17.50
katcoxwriter
So it's not the mlm and it's not multi-level marketing. You're right? It's the pressure your friends to buy your stuff stuff. so yeah yeah yeah so I have no problem with that. Okay, how much does it cost. It Ai n't cheap so if you just go on cvs.com

17:18.11
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah I think that's okay, cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a little different more much more palatable.

17:32.54
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, you.

17:36.93
katcoxwriter
You can get foundation for under ten bucks you can get mascara for fifteen bucks you're probably not going to find too much over $20 that's Pharmacy Drug Drugstore brand makeup and they're known for that. It's cheap. It's easy. You walk in you buy it. You're done excuse me.

17:46.68
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah.

17:53.50
katcoxwriter
I'm gonna take a drink of water here I really have a frog in my throat. Do do do Also the fun of that is I unplug my headphones. Let's try this again.

17:53.70
Tiffany Verbeck
And.

18:06.44
katcoxwriter
This is all fun to edit out later here. We go hi I'm back. Thank you? Okay, so if you want cheap makeup beauty counter is not your out to their foundation is $52 and that's for like.

18:15.70
Tiffany Verbeck
Welcome back.

18:24.57
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh boy.

18:26.36
katcoxwriter
Two ounces the mescara is thirty bucks for a regular tube. The brow gel is 26 they sell a flawless in 5 makeup set which includes foundation concealer brow gel mascara blush and a lip gloss all set to your skin tone for one hundred and seventy one dollars

18:44.72
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh wow and the idea is that you can put that all on in 5 minutes because no way for me. Oh wow I'm going to be slow or something but damn.

18:45.75
katcoxwriter
So.

18:50.13
katcoxwriter
Oh I do it? Yeah that oh no, it's easy for me I even I even also have eyeliner and eye shadow that I used to I can definitely do that. Okay, of course designer makeup runs about this much normally so this is if you shop at Sephora most of their mascaras run from anywhere from 28 to $40 they sell foundation for anywhere from 20 to $70 depending on the brand sometimes stuff is on sale for like seven bucks if you're a real makeup shopper beauty counters pricing is probably going to fall in line with what you would normally spend so it's not outrageous for a luxury brand and their makeup does last a long time I probably buy once a year you know I've had 2 of their older eyes shadow palettes for five or six years now

19:25.41
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah.

19:34.36
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

19:38.48
katcoxwriter
But I also don't wear makeup every day and you're not supposed to keep most of your makeup that long. You're supposed to replace your mescara like every three months. Yeah I'm bad. But again I don't wear it every day. So I I use it till it runs out.

19:39.65
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah. Yeah I Never do that.

19:54.40
Tiffany Verbeck
Yep.

19:54.62
katcoxwriter
Okay, the big question. We've all been waiting for is it actually eco friendly. Okay, once again, we run into the question can any consumer driven brand be eco friendly. All production causes some harm to the environment that could be avoided if people just didn't want to buy it right.

20:11.22
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah.

20:13.50
katcoxwriter
And do we need makeup. No not in a maslow's hierarchy of needs kind of way you know it's not anywhere in the pyramid we need to eat. We probably need clothes. We don't need makeup. Okay I could also get into how makeup makes people feel better.

20:19.60
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah.

20:28.74
katcoxwriter
How women who wear makeup are perceived better in society. Although that's not for any good reasons that I can think of and how makeup is an art form and I could talk about how much I love watching makeup tutorials on Instagram right? Makeup is oh yeah, glope is great. Ah, Makeup's part of our society is just here.

20:35.53
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, lord.

20:41.43
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, or glow up that show is really fun.

20:47.98
katcoxwriter
We all are there's makeup somewhere in your life.

20:52.52
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, and there are people a lot of people who opt out and it's not a big deal in my mind but um.

20:54.17
katcoxwriter
Yeah, yeah I and I think since the pandemic makeup like we're not expected to put a full face of makeup on all the time even when we go out even if you go to the office I mean you know some people would argue. It's kind of a politeness thing to put on makeup If you're.

21:03.70
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, right? yes.

21:12.88
katcoxwriter
Don't know at a bank or something you're forward-facing I don't know but it's not a big deal if you don't wear it anymore. You know so a okay for a makeup brand. Yes, they're more eco-friendly than others probably more than the drugstore brands you're going to see so yes.

21:19.49
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

21:32.14
katcoxwriter
I would say they are eco-friendly as eco-friendly as a consumer brand can be um, but maybe not as eco-friendly as a consumer brand can be. They are conscientious. They are aware they are trying. So yeah, um, they're not the worst Definitely not the worst better than most.

21:42.88
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, they're not the worse.

21:50.35
katcoxwriter
Ah, better goods rates the company as iffy on sustainability because they they still use plastic like any plastic is bad plastic. There's no such thing as good plastic right.

21:52.57
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh interesting.

22:00.80
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, but then we have to think about the other side of it where plastic helps reduce greenhouse gases. So.

22:02.98
katcoxwriter
Right? And especially if they're reusing the plastic. They're already producing or they're using recycled plastic instead you know.

22:10.86
Tiffany Verbeck
Right? It's such a hard thing I'm not advocating for plastic use. But what I have been learning is that it's like this sort of Irony of plastic is so energy efficient to create that it like kind of sucks.

22:25.27
katcoxwriter
Yeah, right compared? yeah, especially compared to right.

22:30.12
Tiffany Verbeck
That but then on the on the back end I mean on the back end both ways you're screwed right? like you either have like I said last time I think like land pollution or air pollution. So.

22:39.43
katcoxwriter
Um, yeah, well and still most plastic is made out of Fossil fuels.

22:46.27
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, and we got it. We just need a plastic that's not shit. That's really what we need. Um, yeah, all right.

22:49.66
katcoxwriter
Right? And you know yeah, they're developing plastic out of algae and other things is just taking them long because it's that's way more expensive to produce now Currently so um, but better goods still gave them good ratings for their ingredients being clean.

23:07.36
katcoxwriter
Even though and this is another thing they still use synthetic ingredients and dieys. But I'm not as opposed to synthetics as I think a lot of people are you know I don't think they're I don't like arsenic is natural. Arsenic's not good for you.

23:13.80
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah.

23:18.83
Tiffany Verbeck
Here.

23:27.27
katcoxwriter
You know, let's.

23:29.85
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, that um I think I just looked up so the one that you said sodium laurel sulfate on Ewg and I think that they didn't I think they rated it totally fine. Let me look. Yeah.

23:32.50
katcoxwriter
Yes.

23:39.43
katcoxwriter
Interesting.

23:45.78
Tiffany Verbeck
1 to 2 out of ten ten is bad so it's totally fine. So yeah, so it's like these chemicals that we create might not be terrible for us and you know probably not for the environment. Um.

23:49.10
katcoxwriter
Um, the right right? along and again you'd have to go down every single one and see what it does for the environment which is probably what I should have done in this research, but.

24:03.49
Tiffany Verbeck
Well if you look at the environmental working group. They kind of do that and what I was finding from shampoo which I feel like they probably have similar ingredients as makeup to a certain extent. Um, most of the ones for shampoo didn't really have an environmental.

24:21.90
katcoxwriter
Um, impact and that but line it goes back. You know that's that's a big question. You know if it affects human beings is it still we are part of the environment. Yeah, and.

24:21.14
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah, yeah, not nearly as much as human. So it's kind of interesting.

24:34.11
Tiffany Verbeck
We are part of the environment. Yes.

24:38.23
katcoxwriter
And you know I talk about sustainability is such a big umbrella it. It also includes labor practices like they're saying one of their main commitments is to not using slave labor and that's hugely important and um, you know inclusivity is another part of the ecosystem that we have to think about in our modern world. So.

24:46.64
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, right? Yes, um yeah, but I mean.

24:57.19
katcoxwriter
Yeah, um, yeah, yeah, another thing um, they're not vegan. They are cruelty for you but they're not vegan so that's something to note I don't know what that.

25:01.61
Tiffany Verbeck
At least they're trying right.

25:09.96
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

25:13.83
katcoxwriter
Means exactly I guess they're just not vegan certified. Yeah I mean there's you know sometimes they use ground up oyster shells or something for her sparkles or shellfish. There's all kinds of different. So.

25:16.75
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, it could be some sort of animal fats or something.

25:29.34
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay, um.

25:32.73
katcoxwriter
I haven't dug through the ingredients enough to know but they don't test on animals at least so this is a short one today because I'm already at the granola rating here. yeah yeah I I have no problem with that. So our granola rating. Um, we also didn't introduce the show very much here I just kind of dove into it. So.

25:35.50
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

25:40.86
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh Wow Sometimes sure it's good.

25:52.24
katcoxwriter
Can talk a little bit about what our goals are so yeah, our granola rating is how we rank the products services and systems that we talk about and research on a scale of 1 to 5 granolas one being the worst which is soggy and 5 being the best which is break your tooth off.

25:52.89
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, that sounds good.

26:10.99
katcoxwriter
And we take a look at all of those factors I mentioned above does it work is it easy to use is it cost effective and is it actually eco-friendly and we take all of those together and we come up with a granola rating for them. So today's product beauty counter specifically I'm giving it a 3 which is chewy I almost gave it a 3.5. The thing was the price. It just feels like 1 more way that normal everyday americans are barred from making better choices for their health or ecosystems you know.

26:32.34
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, oh I thought it would be better. Okay, fair.

26:45.63
Tiffany Verbeck
Right.

26:48.20
katcoxwriter
Ah, why is it that again. Nobody needs makeup. But why isn't the $20 l'oreal going to have the same you know sustainability. So.

26:54.70
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

26:58.66
Tiffany Verbeck
Now it's true. Yeah, l'real with all of the possible resources to make those choices. Yeah.

27:04.52
katcoxwriter
Yeah, they make they make so much money and it's at the expense of our health and our ecosystems and again that is what it all comes down to so that's not beauty counters fault. That's our society's fault but it just was and it was kind of reminding me of minimalism. It's like.

27:13.90
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, yep.

27:22.60
katcoxwriter
Or green living in general right is such a rich girl game. You know it's such an Instagram influencer. Well I have all the money in the world. So I only drink water out of glass bottles and you know I can make that choice because I have the resources to make that yes vegan gluten-free glass bottled water.

27:25.88
Tiffany Verbeck
Right.

27:36.67
Tiffany Verbeck
Vegan water to be specific.

27:42.16
katcoxwriter
I Also knocked it down a poll because they're still creating a product and generating a demand they're playing. Yep they're they're part of the consumerist ecosystem and right right? so.

27:48.48
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, that's true. That's very true. Yeah, and it is definitely not um, a requirement or necessity in you know some people might argue against that. But.

28:01.13
katcoxwriter
Yeah, it's yeah, right? exactly or shelter. Yeah, but again from the other side of the coin they do make an effort I appreciate their transparency.

28:05.28
Tiffany Verbeck
It's a debate but it's not water or food. So yeah.

28:17.77
katcoxwriter
Their goals on sustainable packaging their sourcing efforts their education and advocacy are also really important I think I mean what brands do you know that are actually instead of just slapping a little reduce reuse a cycle symbol on it are actually telling you how to recycle the products that you get imagine if Coca-cola did that.

28:26.79
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

28:33.26
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, I Really appreciate that even colgate has the recycle me it says recycle me on their toothpaste tube. Yeah, it doesn't tell you how and it doesn't oh but it doesn't make it clear.

28:37.38
katcoxwriter
You know. Yeah, and you're like how yeah sorry I lost my headphones again I Keep hitting this I gotta stop.

28:53.90
Tiffany Verbeck
That it's like you can throw it in the regular recycle bin and it should just say that at least I don't think I mean from what I've I didn't see it on there but maybe it did. But yeah, it's like annoying.

28:54.59
katcoxwriter
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

29:02.52
katcoxwriter
Yeah again I mean and ah we go back to that stat I started with you know 55% of women think that the Fda regulates makeup right? It's the same with we think recycling you know.

29:14.27
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes.

29:19.54
katcoxwriter
And where are we going to get that information from.

29:22.68
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, how the hell did make a will like fall through the cracks. Ah.

29:25.35
katcoxwriter
Because it's not. It's not a consumable. It goes on your skin and also it's not a necessity food is drugs are.

29:33.60
Tiffany Verbeck
So do they do they regulate things like soaps they do maybe not the Fda food and drug. Yeah.

29:41.39
katcoxwriter
It's to some extent I think the epa does. So yeah, that's an interesting yeah that it's you know for all of the crap that the Fda and the epa get. For being regulatory. It's ah, kind of amazing how few things I mean the beauty counter website said you know there's only like a handful of of ingredients that are barred in the United States Europe has 1400 yeah I'm sorry my roommate's chattering in the background. Everyone he's enjoying. He's watching scream with his friends. So yeah, um, but yeah, it's you know we're it's the wild west even if you know we're not allowed to put lead and arsenic and certain things but we can still use pfas in our pifas and our our makeup and our underwear production. You know.

30:19.43
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh that's cute.

30:35.47
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, and Triclosan ok.

30:38.36
katcoxwriter
And trickles in. Yeah so yeah, 3 3 point 5 I almost gave them a 4 but it's those those things that we keep coming back to like I can't give a consumer product too high of ah of a rating. Yeah.

30:52.22
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah I get that that makes total sense.

30:57.46
katcoxwriter
But there are alternatives. So um I say you can buy Beauty counter if you don't mind spending the money if you have it great I Feel less bad buying that than dipping into the pharmacy and buying products that may give me and others cancer or kill a bunch of orangutans or destroy the environment and.

31:12.16
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

31:14.19
katcoxwriter
Made by starving children who are paid pennies on the dollar. Not all cosmetic companies. Do this. It's just safe to say Beauty Counter makes an effort not to so you can feel okay buying them I think but there are other alternatives.

31:18.17
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

31:20.94
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah.

31:26.93
katcoxwriter
So Health line listed ways that you can find more sustainable and non-toxic options for your skincare and makeup needs. Um, the biggest thing you can do is learn to read labels so they have a full list of ingredients. You should avoid kind of like that. No no list that just to be safe.

31:34.88
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, first.

31:40.91
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

31:43.96
katcoxwriter
And they also say look for certified organic or locally sourced ingredients. So a lot of brands will list those um you should learn what symbols you should trust. So you know certification labels can help. But again as we we know there's a lot of green hooey ones out there. Cruelty free is pretty easy to figure out. It's got that leaping bunny.

31:49.30
Tiffany Verbeck
So.

32:03.67
katcoxwriter
Um, vegan certified organic those are all things that are pretty easy. There are other like natural you you know you got to clean, you got to figure out who's doing the label you know Allure has best beauty products of whatever but that Allure doesn't necessarily go for sustainability so you know just because allure recommends it doesn't mean.

32:04.78
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, ah.

32:09.59
Tiffany Verbeck
Clean.

32:21.24
Tiffany Verbeck
Um.

32:23.19
katcoxwriter
It's going to be good for the environment or good for your health. Um, so they have ah another link of labels to watch out for on their website there. Another thing they suggest is count the ingredients. So the fewer ingredients are listed the better and this was something we found also with.

32:24.97
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yep.

32:38.82
Tiffany Verbeck
So.

32:42.68
katcoxwriter
Um, essential oils that you yeah if if it says exactly what it is rather than an extract of that or you know, not an extract of that but like ah a synthetically made version of that. It's probably better again. We went through essential oils are not all good for you. So.

32:45.67
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, oh yeah.

33:01.55
katcoxwriter
On the lookout for that. But again easy to read ingredients usually means it doesn't have as many synthetic chemicals that could be Harmful. So um, that's one way to check for sustainability and health issues also look out for Buzzwords The Green huey. That we like to call out like natural. You know, biodegradable Um, any of these terms that don't really mean anything. They aren't Regulated. Just be aware that they also recommend doing your own research which is what we do? yeah.

33:30.25
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah. Um, yeah, we do it for you? um.

33:39.12
katcoxwriter
And the last thing they recommend is to wear less makeup. So this does 2 things it reduces your exposure to if you're going to use that um long-lastling lipstick don't wear it every day you know, um and it also means you're not going to buy as much which lessens the you know.

33:52.65
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay.

33:58.96
katcoxwriter
Toll on the environment.

33:59.10
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, this is really frustrating because not only do women we we talked about this earlier. How women are more likely to do the cleaning and therefore way more likely to be exposed to the harm that's in a lot of like.

34:16.35
katcoxwriter
Um, yeah, yeah, we're exposed to more Kim I mean um, again we talked about period products those are exposing you to.

34:17.67
Tiffany Verbeck
Normal cleaning products and and we're probably the ones wearing makeup. So that's like very annoying to me right.

34:34.92
katcoxwriter
I Mean there's so many ways that women are exposed to more chemical issues. Yeah, and also a lot this um, a bad biologist somebody who's a real biologist come in on this and a real chemist but we tend as human beings to store.

34:37.92
Tiffany Verbeck
I Never thought about that. It's really frustrating.

34:52.83
katcoxwriter
Chemicals in fat and women have more of that than men. So we're more likely to keep it in our bodies longer I believe I have read that somewhere. So.

34:55.65
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, right.

35:00.94
Tiffany Verbeck
Is that true or you're guessing. Okay.

35:07.30
katcoxwriter
And I mean it's not only are we're exposed to more we're more likely to hold on to it longer. And yeah, so yeah, well can you make your own makeup. That's another alternative. Yes I had a roommate once who you she made her own like.

35:12.68
Tiffany Verbeck
Ah frustrations.

35:26.15
katcoxwriter
Compact Face powder like cover up and she would use cinnamon and like cornstarch and some other things and mix it all together with rubbing alcohol and then just let it dry and like an old blush tin and that would work. Um, the problem with food Grade makeup is it can go bad quickly. Also it can irritate your skin. Yeah.

35:28.76
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, oh.

35:34.83
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, huh.

35:40.15
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, okay yeah I was gonna say.

35:45.66
katcoxwriter
So like you know, essential oils are all natural but sometimes that doesn't mean they're great for you so again, arsenic is bad for you. Lead is bad for you all natural though. So the coconut mama made a list of 25 recipes for Diy Makeup Solutions

35:49.15
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, ah.

36:01.32
katcoxwriter
And she also had a list of all of the ingredients you could need. It looked pretty good pretty you know it's like activated charcoal. All of those things you can get um I posted the link in our sources so you know human beings have been making makeup for thousands of years it's not new. So of course there's going to be diy homeways to make it. But just remember you know everyone wore face powder in the seventeenth century. But it was full of lead. So just because you can make it at home doesn't mean it's good for you. Just be very careful I think that list from coconut mama is pretty good and make sure that. You know you watch out for bacteria and other things that could infect you and don't you know if you're not going to use it. Don't buy it. Don't don't don't waste the money don't waste the the resources you know? So um, that that was beauty counter.

36:47.78
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, yeah, yeah.

36:54.88
Tiffany Verbeck
Nice.

36:57.10
katcoxwriter
To yeah I I might rethink it might be a 4 but I think it's a 3.5 yeah yeah

37:01.36
Tiffany Verbeck
No I think you convinced me 3 or three point five because it's true. It is an excess. It's not a necessity. It's not like but because the thing I worry about is like if we label stuff a four that's just something you can buy for fun.

37:13.27
katcoxwriter
Yeah.

37:18.78
katcoxwriter
Yeah.

37:20.62
Tiffany Verbeck
In my mind. Um, then it's sort of like oh well feel so good about buying this thing that I don't actually need. So yeah, yeah.

37:25.66
katcoxwriter
Yeah, yeah, I Yeah do I mean our our our biggest takeaway is reduce. So if you don't need to wear aico. Yeah yes, and refuse. Yes, yeah.

37:35.78
Tiffany Verbeck
And refuse that was from the by nothing group where it's like you can refuse Yes I actually don't wear makeup very often and part of it is the pandemic part of it's being a mother.

37:42.75
katcoxwriter
You don't have to be part of this cycle of yeah so.

37:53.31
katcoxwriter
Um, yeah, yeah.

37:54.50
Tiffany Verbeck
Part of it but a lot of it is working remotely actually like you said it's like I will wear s spf ah my tinted moisturizer with Sbf and then you know maybe some eyebrow gel and then. Maybe maybe mascara if I'm feeling fancy but that's it. So.

38:14.37
katcoxwriter
Yeah I feel like since I've turned over 35 anytime I wear a mascara I just have permanent black circles under my eyes no matter how much I wash it? Ah, but that's the 1 thing I like I I like.

38:23.14
Tiffany Verbeck
Well yeah, exactly.

38:30.30
katcoxwriter
Like Mascarale like have my eyes pop. So but yeah I'm the same way I don't wear makeup at home like if I'm going out I'll put it on but if I'm just going to the grocery store I'm not going to put on makeup. No and it can be fun. Yeah, it's just an additional step that.

38:31.42
Tiffany Verbeck
Okay.

38:41.84
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, and there's nothing wrong with wearing it. It's just not yes, right? right? Exactly cool. Well thank you for this.

38:49.89
katcoxwriter
I Don't need you know I'm not trying to impress anyone. So yeah, yeah, um I did want to bring up I had some listener mail. Ah my twin sister who is one of our. Our best commentators had something to say about our mini episode on landfills which was a couple episodes ago. Yeah, she didn't like our granola rating which is fair. We gave it ah a one? yeah.

39:10.80
Tiffany Verbeck
Um, oh cool. Oh what did we? What was it ah landfill was one out of 5 Ok.

39:20.81
katcoxwriter
And I kind of agree with her reasoning. So she said I could quote her on this I'm just going to read her text message. She said I have to gripe about the landfill conclusion I enjoyed the episode. Thank you and I agree that we should make less waste and landfills are frightening but they are so much better than life without them 3 exclamation points they deserve at least the 2

39:23.85
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes.

39:40.61
katcoxwriter
Compared to countries that don't bury or capture the leachate and methane compared to countries that don't separate hazardous would you rather just have open pits that people live in and dig through for items I mean they can improve and as a society we have an obligation to make less waste but for a lot of our trash landfills. Are a much more environmental option than burning or throwing trash in the oceans. This is true so they are they are better. We still want to keep stuff out of them. So okay, well upgrade landfills to a 2 Julia yes.

40:01.51
Tiffany Verbeck
Yeah, this is true.

40:11.54
Tiffany Verbeck
If you insist no it's true. It is true because yeah like I think the thing that annoys me about landfills is that they don't all I don't even know if most use the methane that's produced even though they.

40:27.53
katcoxwriter
Um, right? yeah.

40:30.40
Tiffany Verbeck
Freaking could and like it might be more expensive but I think they can sell it I don't know that that just bugs me but it's true, much better than an open pit much better than in the Oceans or all over the ground or yeah, yep.

40:34.33
katcoxwriter
Um, yeah.

40:39.36
katcoxwriter
Yeah, in your backyard. Yeah, so yeah, we agree. Okay, it was a little harsh on Landfills I admit it but okay, yes, appreciate your local handful and maybe that's just it. It's kind of mindfulness about.

40:49.34
Tiffany Verbeck
Be nice to landfills.

40:57.34
katcoxwriter
All the work that goes into that and you know let's make them less harmful. Let's keep stuff out of them quit buying you know stuff that it can only be thrown away do your best to not do that. Oh and that was another thing I wanted to mention about um, using Glass I think we talked about this.

41:08.96
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, yeah.

41:16.90
katcoxwriter
Is circling back to Beauty Counter using Glass um using Glass was something we talked about with essential oils is that those can't be recycled because the oils and stuff you know So the fact that Beauty counter is taking back those jars and finding ways to recycle them themselves is is helpful as well. That's a big.

41:24.53
Tiffany Verbeck
Oh right.

41:33.40
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes I love that? yep.

41:36.80
katcoxwriter
Ah, big issue with glass you know so okay, all right? So next week Sustainable shampoo conditioner food. Awesome I'm excited about this one So well. Thank you.

41:44.70
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, we're focusing on shampoo bars or solid shampoo. So yeah, it should be fun. Yes, and please leave a review if.

41:54.55
katcoxwriter
Thank you for listening to greening up my act.

41:59.81
katcoxwriter
Yes, yeah.

42:03.40
Tiffany Verbeck
You have a second so just scroll down on your little app there and click those 5 stars and we would love you forever.

42:07.92
katcoxwriter
Yeah, appreciate it all right? We're deep into December now we're first week of December for this episode. So I hope everybody is yeah feeling good after their Thanksgiving holidays and.

42:17.59
Tiffany Verbeck
Warm.

42:23.47
katcoxwriter
Ready for this is I think officially let's circle back to that after the holiday season at work So use your line use that line and get some rest Awesome All right I'll see you next week bye.

42:28.42
Tiffany Verbeck
Yes, her good. Love it. Okay bye.