One note from the study that I found really interesting. The best thing you can reuse that they looked at was a reusable fork. Like silverware. Yes. Hello, Tiffany? Oh, five says with caveats. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just last like, I was late to recording because my child was having an absolute conniption fit, you know, like, losing her shit. Which happens and it is what it is. But yeah, I'm just having, like, one of those couple of weeks where I feel like I'm always late. Like, every feels like so much of my time. I'm running late to something. I think that may be just the human condition. Yeah, I mean, I don't I was like, I, I would say, have you consulted your astrology charts, but you know, whatever. I don't know. I, if I want to blame it on the summer heat. Like, I know, I've got seasonal depression right now because like, you can't go outside. It's 107 degrees here. So we're like stuck indoors. And you know what? You're gonna go see another movie? Yeah, sure. No, it's nothing. Nothing feels like I don't want to do anything. I feel like I take that. Anytime I have a break. I go and lie down. Right. I have heard you during the winter. Yes. Well, that's I was gonna say everybody always thinks of sad seasonal affective disorder, or whatever it's called. In the winter, but it's totally a summer thing too. Yeah. And we have had several bouts of fire. Yeah. Like smoke from you can't call tide. Yeah, so it's like, this time wasn't so bad, but it's just like Jesus Christ. What is the end? Like if I don't get a walk in before the sun is up, basically, right? I'm just toast literally toast. So yeah, I my poor dog he gets, we go for a walk in the morning. And then if it gets below 90 by 9pm. I'll take him for a walk. But my God, you know, it's it's 90 degrees at night. Like, I'm like dog, sorry. And he just, he'll, we'll go sit on the back patio and boasted there for about two minutes. Then he's like, Well, that was fun time. Great. To not even in the sun. Just in the shade. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, it's hot here. Like yeah, 90 low. 90s. But not hundreds. So lucky. I mean, Lucky. That's still hot. Oh, for I know, when I used to live out there in DC in Maryland. That's hot. It's a swamp. Yeah, it's very humid. So yeah. 80% humidity or so. Yeah. So it's just, you're just gross. And you don't. The sweat doesn't evaporate so you don't cool off. It's up muggy. And yeah. And you just like, do you actually just sit into it? Like, you don't have to be active. You just sweat. Yeah, just sitting outside the back to your knees. Like there's going to be a stain on your seat when you stand up. Yes. Yeah. Really? It's rough. Yeah. But yeah, I don't know if it's like being a parent where you're just trying to get things moving. And the kid is dragging their feet. Yeah, a big part of it. But it's just like every thing I do. I'm like, I'm late to something. I'm like, do something. I must be overbooking myself to my Yeah, maybe just quit some stuff. I know. Don't though, because I need you in this podcast. Well, no, this would definitely everything but the podcast quit everything else. So be last on the list of quitting for sure. Yeah, I'm like, I don't even feel like I have a life. How am I hopeless? I know. I wonder about that. Well, I hate to be that. That childless person, but kids are only little ones. So yeah, show us to connect summer you'll be like we were late stuff. Hopefully. Yeah, I hear three is better. So that's only six months away. So I should just shut my trap. Anyway. Today's episode, let's get into that. Maybe we're talking about reusable stuff. Yeah. And I wanted to combine all this stuff because it's like, I didn't necessarily think each one deserves its own full episode. Right. But you know, this season we're talking about waste and it's often a at least marketed as a solution to waste is reusable stuff like the three I looked at were stasher bags so reusable ziplocks beeswax wrap that is meant to replace saran wrap or plastic wrap, and reusable straws. Right and these are all big, big plastic items that we just kind of throw away. Yes. And as we know from our plastics recycling episode, I don't know if I mentioned this you can't recycle plastic straws anywhere or pores as far as I know. We're saran wrap. Yeah, general, I'm you may, I think we're well might take it but generally no and plastic baggies to or are difficult to recycle? Yeah, I kind of doubt you can to be honest. I think Redwall does collect them. Yeah. And but they're hard to reuse, right. But the other thing is, even if you recycle it, it's gonna get recycled one to three times. So it's like, is there a point to it? Not? Nah, no, no, I don't know. Yeah, I wanted to look at these three items to see like, are they actually helping? Right? Or is it green? Who? Our favorite term which what is green? Who? I mean? Yeah, green Hui is like green, what people call greenwashed. Marketing. So companies that use it's our term for it, right? So but it's companies use sort of green labels, green words like eco friendly, sustainable, biodegradable, all have these things, and nobody's really regulating it. So they can just throw all these leaves and whatnot on their packaging. And they look really good. But a lot, a lot of times we have found that they're not actually eco friendly at all. Right? And they sometimes are worse. Yeah. And then they cost more to. Yes. And one thing that I found before I get into my sources, yeah, they do cost so much more. That's nutso thing. We're going to talk about that a little bit here. But one thing I found was a 2021 study in the International Journal of likes life cycle assessment, which is a big one that I'm sourcing in this episode. It shows that, quote, reusable products are not necessarily always more green, since their impact depends on how they are used. Okay, I'll leave you with that. My sources, I only had 1234566 ish. So Anthropocene. They talked about reusable stuff in general talking about straws and standard trap and all that. They quoted this that study that I mentioned, the study, again, International Journal of lifecycle assessment was a huge part of it. Vox article about zero waste products, like straws, or baggies or whatever, Stanford had a plastic straw article about whether or not they actually make a difference. And then I used stasher bags, which is a brand stasher stasher bags website. Okay, so from Anthropocene. This is from that article. One of the leaders of that study was quoted in that article. And her name is Shelley Miller. And she's from the University of Michigan School for environmental insists environment and sustainability. And she says, quote, in reality, reusable are generally better than single use products. But the caveat here comes the but but they actually must be reused. And well done. Okay. Yeah. And often reused a large number of times to realize their environmental benefit. I think we've had we've, we've talked about this, anytime we've talked about, like, you need to reuse a jar 4000 times or whatever to make up for its carbon footprint. Yeah. And its creation or so that was one reason I really wanted to talk about this. Because in the plastics episode, we talked a lot like I touched on it, because I found a source on somebody saying, Oh, you need to use a bag like 4000 times the tote bags. That's what it was. Yeah, it was 52 times for a paper bag, I think. Right? Yes. And they were looking at that was a different study, actually. But they were looking at, like 52 times two for different factors. Because there's a lot that goes into sustainability. It's not just one thing, right? So it's like 52 times to make it better than plastic in terms of greenhouse gases, but you need to use it 4000 times in terms of all of the above. So in terms of like decom decomposition time, or what kind of impact it can have on waterways or Yeah, your water use. Yes, exactly. So I Was I feeling really disheartened about that. And I was like, What the eff have been so lied to if that's the case, right? And so that was a big reason why I wanted to look into these because I was like, so hold on. Does that mean that this is not even worth it? Like, I should just keep reusing or keep using ciplox? And not bother? Right? Oh, yeah. So, so we're gonna find, we're gonna find dirty. Yeah, we're gonna find out. Another thing that Shelly Miller says is that reusable items are more durable than single use items, obviously. But so that's good in theory, right. But it also means that we're usable as consume more material and energy to make. Yes, makes sense. Right? So your tote bag versus your plastic bag from your grocery store, very different in terms of what the input needed, like a law I would even say. So Austin recently, well, they went back and forth on a law about plastic bags, that for a while it was you couldn't have plastic bags, like they didn't, they wouldn't have the grocery store. And then the state overrule that law. And so what they did was they made the law that the plastic bag that you get at the grocery store has to be reusable. So it's thicker plastic bags, right? Which means, again, I think that's an issue is out there, they need more plastic, they use more energy to be made. And if people are just using them the same way they use the old plastic bag, which let's be honest, how many people are reusing them? Right? I will. It's kind of a an eight GB bag is kind of a Texas girls purse. So it's your overnight bag. I mean, anytime you go to the pool, you have your EGB bag, but okay, so they are being reused. But I mean, I do their 10 cents a bag, you know, too. So I actually just take them, I'll take them back in a stack and tell the cashier just here use these hand them out to people who want bags for free. So and they do it. They have their subtypes as they're like, Okay. I'm like, I don't need them. Yeah, anyway. Oh, that's so so it's 10 cents for the bigger ones. Yeah. Okay. Yeah, I mean, that would be more of an incentive, because ours are five cents like most places, but Well, everything's bigger in Texas, honey. Maker and thicker. Okay. Yeah. Use the pool. Definitely can't pick your dog poop up with it. Not great. Anyway. So yeah. That's a concern that nobody thought about is that like, yeah, it's a reusable bag, but 30 times the carbon output making it right. It makes me wonder about I feel like the oil industries would love that. Oh, further, just like, that's probably why. Oh, I'm so cynical. That's why the governor let it pass. Oh, you know, you know, because we're such an oil and gas heavy stadiums. Probably. Okay, yeah, you can make bigger bags. So in that we will do. You can't outlaw plastic bag, but you can definitely make bigger reusable bags. That's fine. Yeah, that would actually be interesting to look into that. I don't want to know, I know. I know. But any who's this study looked at four things. I think it's been a minute since I did this research. Yeah, four things. One is the global warming potential, which they call GWP. Oh, cute. I like that. That's all Yeah. acronym. Yeah. Okay. They looked at the water consumption. They looked at non renewable energy use, and they looked at consumer washing and reuse habits. Okay. And they looked at, like, typical habits. So not maybe somebody who's super conscious, but just like a normal human being. Yeah. American. Yeah. A normal American. Yeah. Yeah. And so they wanted to find the break even point for each of these items in terms of each of these factors. So like, where's the break even point for global warming potential? Where is it for water consumption? Where is it for non renewable, all those things, and they found? So first off, I have to also say, just leave you on a cliffhanger. Now I have to also say I have all of the above. Okay, in my house. So this was a little upsetting for me to read. But okay, so they found that silicone sandwich bags and beeswax wrap. never reach a break even point. Oh, wow. That is that I have them. I don't have these wax wrap. But I do have. Okay, I got it. I got these wax wax wrap for this podcast. Yeah. I got it for everybody, for you, listeners just for you. So you don't have to. Yeah, no, but I mean, I'm gonna get into it a little bit more because it is more nuanced than that. But the reason that it never reaches a breakeven point is because there's a much bigger impact from the water and energy needed for manual washing. Oh, so on the middle end it says on the front end for creating it but no, that makes sense because of consumer habits. Yeah. us, yes, all our fault. But if you wash it every other time, rather than every time you use it, you might hit breakeven points. Oh, interesting. Well, I wonder, okay, sorry, what was gonna say? So for example, it could go from having to use it 10,000 times to using it 200 times. Okay. Okay, well, interesting. I wonder about using your dual Bayesian method, which uses less water to I'm gonna get into that. Okay, good. I mean, I'm sorry. Yes, no, no, you're good. Because that's the big thing they are. They they're looking at typical, okay, where you just leave the water running and use. Okay. And it's like super hot water. That's another option is you can also just reuse your single use items without washing them. So like, I'm thinking, all the clamshell packaging I figured out in the plastics episode. My local recycling center doesn't take so like anything like the raspberries. Yeah, they come in the class clamshell packaging. I could I have raspberries in my backyard. I could reuse package. Yeah. If I don't wash it, that's maybe even a better option than getting something. Okay. Then it will like If it hasn't, like for me if it hasn't had meat in it. Right? Like how I don't care if my grasp and if you're just like making a peanut butter sandwich and putting it in a bag? Like yeah, okay. Just yeah. butter sandwich. Yeah, right. You can definitely reuse Ziploc bags. My husband makes so much fun IV he's like, What is this? Why are you washing this out? And like, why aren't you washing? I know. Yeah. My house like me and my roommate both wash all of all the baggies and like I use him Yeah. And so there's I think there's actually like a drug of plastic bag drying rack you can get Oh, see that's a big minor always like hanging from my spatula. But yeah, minor like over glasses that are drying and like Yeah, cuz they're very annoying to dry. They are because you have to put them upside down and right in one side drives the others went yeah. Oh, sure. I can make one out of all hangers. Anyway. That way, I'm not that crafty. This is a business opportunity for ya. Upcycling, yeah, exactly. Yeah. So overall, they found that emissions for reusable products were highly sensitive to the changes in dishwashing emissions. So basically, your dishwashing habits. Got it. So if you miss our DIY dishwasher detergent episode, go back and listen, because because there's a two basin method. And as you mentioned, it's a sort of like a navy way of washing like you might use it in the Navy. You use two basins cold water yet one low water use are like camping, a camping camping. Yes. And we can link that in the shownotes. Because it sounds it does sound like using a better form of washing your dishes, even if you're washing them by hand would make it more sustainable. The other thing that's kind of interesting is it sent most of the stuff that I have is dishwasher safe. Okay, so that confuses me a little bit, because I would be running the dishwasher anyway. And it's not really making that big of an impact. Hmm. You know, but some actually, I have two forms, the stasher bags are dishwasher safe. According to their website. My mother in law gave me some that, you know, they come in packs of like, 100. Right, I don't need 50 Take some and but they're not dishwasher safe. And those are big pain in my ass. We'll get into it. So I want to talk about each of these products because they're all different, right? So let's start with straws. Okay this study says that by year one, glass, okay, hold on. First off, this is kind of wild because it's saying the study bases their maths on using it five times a week for a year. Okay, five times a week. That doesn't happen with a lot of this stuff. So just letting you know that's what they're saying but they are saying for straws. By year one. Glass metal and silicone straws reach their payback period. Okay, well with five uses per week or year. Okay, so she's a single straw. Okay. Well, you know, and like maybe I don't straws, I think are but that's possible, right? But I mean, yeah, I'm like if i i Don't use straws. I only use straws when I have ice because I just drink out of a glass but Origen can have a water bottle. So write a reusable water bottle just to be clear. Okay, but bamboo never got there. Okay, well, we all know screw bamboo. I think it's a water right? Yeah, it's yes. way doing water. Yeah. Yeah, we've talked about that. It's, it might look sustainable. And it's not actually a sustainable material. Yeah. Which is interesting, because in Vietnam, they use bamboo for straws, restaurants and stuff. Well, maybe if it's like on premises bamboo? Well, yeah, if it's not coming from, like a bamboo farm where they're, I don't know, it's hard to say, Oh, yeah. Or if they're not like, because I think the issue was bamboo. I mean, it grows like a weed. But I think it's because when you process it to make it into something else, like, if you're just using it, you know, like he picked it off the side of the road and stuck it in a drink, you know? But if you think well, I don't think so. Because the straws. They're not like, they're just in maybe there's a different kind of bamboo straw, but they just take a piece of bamboo and cut out the middle. Yeah, and dry it out. And that's that sort of thing that that I think would be less water than if you took the bamboo and separated the fibers and made it into you know, yeah, I assume that all the brushes are like that. But maybe you're right. I don't know. And maybe that's the issue. Yeah, you're probably right. I thought it was a lot of water to grow bamboo. That's probably true. Do I know. It grows like a weed, but I think it's in the processing? I mean, I know for fibers like for clothing. That's true. Yeah, it's hard to say. But either way, bamboo never reaches the payback of bamboo. Yeah, let the pandas eat the bamboo. Right. But it's interesting because metal, glass and silicone are all significant, significantly higher for just one use. So if you buy it and use it once, you're really wasting your time. Don't do that. And metals, the worst because metals, pretty hard to Yeah, like that takes a lot of resources to make. But then if you use them over time, which is the moral of the story, if you use them a lot and reuse them, then you can actually make it worth your time. It just takes a full year though, like you would never think that. Well. I mean, that actually. Because I've had I bought some metal straws just to have for like cocktail parties. Or like if I feel like having a soda in the afternoon was yeah, I said it five years ago, and I've had them and they're fine. And I actually put them in the dishwasher. And they're fine. And my roommate uses them to drink smoothies and probably like, I think they've they've earned their weight, you know, back in. I think a year would It would actually be surprising to me that it's that little. Well, using it five days a week. I'm putting my room it does. Okay. So, yeah, interesting. It makes me want to go make a gin and tonic and put a straw on it right now. Yeah, I think I'm surprised how long it is just because I think most people think right away. Well, you just build. I mean, it's kind of like buying a Prius. Right, right. Like you've, you're like I'm making an impact. It's like, yeah, making that car was real bad. But yeah, you feel better right away because you're like, Well, I'm not contributing to greenhouse gases now even though the creation of that item significantly contributed. But yeah, yeah, that's that was the biggest, interesting, the most interesting thing for me, I do want to say one thing about metal straws and this is something that my friend points out. It keeps the beverage cold as it gets into your mouth. Just for the record, like cuz sometimes if you drink through a straw just comes it's like okay, it was cold and I mean, it's not very long for to get you know, from a straw to your mouth. But Americans do that. I mean, I have like metal water bottles and they definitely keep it colder. Yeah, it just delivers the full liquid cold you so if you want to like really make things slightly more refreshing. Anyway, that's that's a man a little stressed up. Yeah. Love it. Oh, yeah. So so I kind of wanted to look at each of these items and think like think through our typical greening up my act mindset as they were. Are they cost effective? Are they easy to use? So for straws, do they work? Yes. Although I will say my silicone straw throws me for a loop because there's some sort of physics behind it where I cannot put it in a slightly too small lid and suck anything out. Like I don't know what it is. If something something sciencey what's the EFF is going on? So I can't use because it's like kind of thick. But anyway, they do work, mostly speaking. So, are they cost effective? Well, if you think about it, not at all. Because straws are usually cost effective meaning are they cheaper than, but like straws are usually included with out an upcharge. So you're paying a shitload more for a straw. Right? So I just bought two plastic ones, because one of them melted in the dishwasher. from Starbucks, yes. I hate to say it, but I did it for 10 bucks. Wow, that ain't free. No, I mean, obviously, straws aren't free, like regular plastic straws, or whatever compostable bullshit they're raising these days. And that's fun. Yeah. But yeah, they're free ish. You know, there's probably a slight upcharge. But so as far as price No, not at all. No. I mean, it's yeah. It's outlandish if you think about it. straws are the Tesla of Yes. Yeah. Not everybody can afford it or has has the interest in buying something that they can get for practically free. Yeah, exactly. Is it easy to use? Yes, I do put mine in the dishwasher. I don't know why that one melted. It hadn't happened before. And it hasn't happened again. So anyways, we need to be removed from the food chain. Survival of the fittest. Yes, the dishwasher. And it's easy to use ish, but I don't carry mine around. So if I'm out and a need for a straw comes up. I'm going to just use a random straw. Do you carry yours? No. I've seen people have portable straw cases and things and the purse just isn't that big. And I mean if I ever like collapsible, but yeah, I don't go and get things. I need straws very often either. So Right? Because I am my own barista. I make my own coffee at home. Yeah, we started doing that. It's so lovely. Isn't it nice? Yes. I love it so much. So that's the straw. sort of the overview of the straw. Okay, reusable straws. And I didn't think the study mentioned paper straws because paper straws are such a thing now, but they still I feel like they're better than they used to be for sure. I definitely had a paper straw at a hotel over the weekend and was not like this is terrible as a design my mouth. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, if you use it for more than 30 minutes, you're kind of risking some cardboard mouth but so let's move on to reusable plastic wrap. So I got bees wax wrap, which is basically just fabric. I could have made it on my own. And I think Nancy has something on our Instagram, but I just didn't have the energy or the time so I bought some. Okay, why? It's not beeswax though. It is actually beeswax. Oh, okay. Yeah, you just take fabric and melt beeswax over it again. I think it's extremely easy. And I even have all of the things I would have needed. It just was a time crunch thing. Yeah, but beeswax wrap did not break even for global warming potential. Okay, why BP? Natural it's because of the because you have to wash it so like, you use it. It's probably going to get dirty and you're gonna have to hand wash it. There's no way you can put that in your dishwasher. No, it's just gum up the works. Yes. Okay. So no, but let's look at it. So I bought this shirt. Okay. Does it work? It does work actually. It doesn't keep anything vacuum sealed but neither does plastic wrap. You know that unless you're like trained and you have to be like, Oh my God. Yeah, I have a friend who works at a kitchen any brings me chicken wings from time to time and he just Saran wraps the shit out of that. It's like he's got like the industrial size. Yeah, those work way better, though. So yeah, but it's like, do we really need this much? He's like, Oh, I didn't want the sauce to get over my backpack. Like Alright, thanks. Right. Yeah, it's not bring it to me in a plastic bag, I guess. Yeah, so this beeswax wrap? Is it cost effective in terms of like, what's the price comparison basically. So saran wrap? I found four 585 on Amazon for 100 square feet. Okay, beeswax wraps or BS BS rap is the name of the brand that I bought was 1499 for one small one medium and one large. No. Yeah. Oh, okay. And how many times did you have to use it for to make up I mean, you can't. You can't I mean even for pricing even for the price of it. You probably can if you're really careful about how you wash it. But that's the only way. And then when you're done, you can't recycle that. Because yeah, closing so Exxon, it can't be recycled. If you think about it, like, you definitely can't recycle it. Theoretically, you can make up the cost by your third box of saran wrap, but that could like take decades. I don't know how long it was, like you're using your reusable jars instead of freaking out you're trying to avoid Yeah, so is it easy to use? Yes. So it's easy to put on, but cleaning, it seems like a true headache, especially if it's got something gunky on it right now. It's covering an onion and I can just feel it. I can feel the soil smell. That is now your onion wrap. It is you can't use it for anything else. Yeah, but that was a mistake. Yeah, the cleaning it in a responsible way. Seems like an even bigger headache so far. Yeah. Silicone bags. Also don't break even. Okay, so these are the stasher bags, which are really are supposed to replace the ziplock bags. And I have some of these and you cannot put them in the dishwasher. You can this extra bags. Okay, the version I have. I did and my roommate was like, can't do that. I was like, come on. See, I wasn't sure. And I'm gonna get into this. But well, I'll just say it now but I wasn't sure because I did put it in the dishwasher. And once it was like parts of it flaked off. So I looked it up but stashes website says you can so okay. I don't know. I don't know if I trust it. But so that's the thing. Silicone bags, you can put them in the dishwasher if you can. So if you can, then I think you probably could break even. Okay, actually, that's the washing issue. Yeah. Right. But they didn't look at that. So that's really a guess. So do they work? So yes, ish. I find mine to be a massive pain to open. ziplocs you just open it. Alright. Yeah, these are like, cause like, such a thick for me. Like, yeah, it's hard to close them. Yes. My problem. Like I don't feel like they seal. Yes. So I don't love it. I don't use it that often because of that. Yeah. And I let my roommate like it make a sandwich. Have fun. Yeah. And it's kind of a pain to get stuff in it now. Which is the case with all baggies but when I was having all that dishwasher trouble, which my dirty labs dishwasher detergent is amazing. Still, yeah, I still love it. But go back to our dishwasher. Episode if you're curious. But all of everything tasted like soap. And so I put my stasher bag in the dishwasher. Anything I put in it tasted like soap. No, so now I don't even like them anymore, because I think it's gonna make stuff taste like soap. So are they cost effective? Nope. Does I mean yeah, that's the thing. plastic baggies are so Cheadle yet. So this is okay, this is kind of a wild difference. One stasher bag, the smallest size is $9.21. And this is I found on Amazon. If you get 90 smalls, ziplocks that's $4.29 or five cents per bag, which is 200 times more expensive. You can't raise a family on that, you know, that's insanity. So is it easy to use? So I have two types. Like I said, one is dishwasher safe. The other one isn't? Basically, like I said before, it's okay to use. It's not great. It's not terrible. It's just not that pleasant. Yeah. One note from the study that I found really interesting. The best thing you can reuse that they looked at was a reusable fork. Like silverware. Yes. Okay, instead of the plastic forks. Yeah. So even a metal fork broke even after 11 uses on all counts. Okay, and bamboo and plastic were even better. Really? Yeah. Bamboo. Wow. Yeah, obviously crazy. That's we Oh, yeah. Sounds like throwaway silverware is the worst. So that's what we should have done done this whole app I know it's because everybody has silverware though. I don't know anybody who just uses plastic ware and throws it away. Well, I'm sure anytime you're out anytime. Also, I go to like if I get a salad I love I do love Chick fil A salads. I know that makes me like bad liberals job but Add Yeah. But they'll give me we have to ask them not to give us plastic utensils. And they don't always remember or whatever. So you just have all the shit. But I you know if you're ever out, I mean I use them when I'm out. I'm not I don't carry a foreground. So anytime I need to eat something when I'm not at home and I'm not at like a restaurant, then I'm going to be using a plastic one. But yeah, apparently, I should be carrying a middle fork. And the thing is, you don't have to buy a new one. Just grab one from your silver silverware drawer. I know you're not gonna miss it. Like, don't get it from your mother, your grandmother's silver plate settings. But yeah, yeah, actually, today I was out a meeting at work. And I went through my bag and I found the fork that I brought last week. To work. I just have a fork in my bag. Oh, nice. Yeah, I used to have one at work. Yes. I've always had one in the office. I always had a fork and a knife. And yeah, yeah. Because you can do. It's like work is like camping. Yes, exactly. And that. Yeah, I can see that saving. I mean, that's like a no brainer for me. I always I make sure that like if I get delivery, that I'm delivering napkins, and yeah, don't bring those. But I used to have a stash of plastic forks in case like, somebody came by and I needed to give them food and just send them on their way. You know, right. Okay, here you go. Hmm. But yeah, you just have so much of those. They just build up. Yeah, there are some restaurants in the area in my area that are starting to ask ahead of time, but it's definitely not ubiquitous, especially food. Yeah. Well, yeah. Fast food doesn't care. But they really shouldn't. Because it's like, not cheap for them. Right. When a lot of places I've been to have been using like compostable bamboo forks and stuff, so Okay. Well, I do live in Austin. I know. Right? Hippie Ville? Yeah. compostables debatable, but um, yeah, as we know, yeah. It's green, new. It's just one of the landfill. But oh, yeah. So that was, yeah, so that was like uplifting. For me, it's a nice note to end on. So let's go to our granola rating. So TLDR too long, didn't read granola rating, if anybody ever wants to skip ahead and just go to we put chapter markers in our episodes. So if you don't have time to listen to whole thing, you can just skip ahead to the section to the TLDR section. i For the record, put way more chapters in mind than you do. I depends on episodes, sometimes I'm gonna go wild. But yeah. Other times they're just like, hey, it's not worth it. Yeah, yeah, they can they can figure it out. Yeah. So we rate every product from one to five granolas. And the granola is one granola is soggy, which is gross. And five granola is, is break your tooth off. Like you can't even finish it with a full mouth of teeth because it's so crunchy. So for this for the record, that's good. Yes, you want it to be crunchy. For these three products, I kind of lumped them all together. So reusable stuff in general, I had to give it a two out of five. I really debated this, because it depends too much on individual usage in the material and the washing techniques. But I will say a reusable forks fork gets a crunchy. Okay, so all the other stuff I looked at, too, so like maybe don't bother or bother. But make sure you're conscious about how much you think you're gonna use it. Don't just go out to REI and be like, Oh, sweet. Yeah, I'm not trying to. This is me. This is Yeah. Oh, sweet, like Middle. Middle camping cup. I'll use once a year like Yeah, I think I want that. No, Tiffany, don't do that. Yeah. Use what you already have. Yeah. Okay. Yes, exactly. A couple of suggestions going forward, reduce and reuse first Go figure. There's a website I found called we hate to waste.com. Who and it's basically what they describe themselves as a global platform for sharing stories about living less wastefully. So it's a sort of like zero waste concept. They sound like we should be friends with them. Right? And it's worth a look, it's definitely worth going to that website because they just have, you know, lots of ideas and people are doing their own thing. And I find you kind of have to be comfortable looking a little weird. Yeah, a lot of the time. Like, if you bring your own Tupperware to a restaurant, you're gonna look a little weird, and that's okay. Yeah, it's fine. And I say you and I'm really talking to myself because I don't like looking weird. I love it. I'm a big fan. I'm not surprised. You're being sarcastic. Oh, no, no, I actually do love it. Okay, see, I like I like the kind of challenge of like, what's wrong why? Why is does it make you uncomfortable that I look this way because I'm fine. I love that. That just reminds me so much of Joe. That's one of the reasons He like brings us out of me because I get embarrassed so easily. And he's the opposite. And he loves to embarrass me. So it's it's all good. Mutually beneficial, I guess. Anyway. Yeah. So the Vox article that I use is basically saying, like, if getting a new eco friendly product, this is a, quote, eco friendly product helps you support your lifestyle, then so be it. So like, let's not kill ourselves, right? Yeah, let's not overanalyze because that one metal straw that you forgot to use and is not going to be the reason for the end of the earth. Right. Yeah. And they said that the goal of the original study, this is I think, these are quotes from the authors of the study. Okay. They said the goal was not to determine if single use or usable products were better or worse, and should end the study should not be used in this way. Oh, so what we just did, okay, yeah, yeah, it's true. But they said like reusable alternatives, and single use products, both have their strengths and weaknesses. And in any situation, environmental trade offs will have to be made. So that's kind of one thing I wanted to have a conversation at, like a quick conversation about. Because like, if you care about climate, like global warming, that's one thing. If you care about water usage, that's another thing. If you care about plastic pollution, that's another thing. So I find it really hard to figure out what to put on top. Because sometimes, sometimes they don't always go hand in hand. I can see that. Yeah. So there was like a whole Reddit thread criticizing people for buying a bunch of mason jars at Walmart, because it's Walmart. But like, that's truly not the point. Because not everyone has the time or energy or ability to create their own or through thrown everything, right, like me with the bees. Rep. Right. Well, I think that that's one of the things we'd like to point out is that like, we we're not endless beings, and there's only so much we can all do on an individual level. And trying it all is commendable. You know, and being informed at all is commendable, right? We're not here to shame anyone. Yeah. And I think it's saying like, single use products both have their strengths and weaknesses. Right. But yeah, I do think it's, I do think the study was important to open our eyes to like, how we have to use them. Yeah, or the ideal way that we could, yeah, like and be aware that you might be better off just not buying them. I mean, like if you have another method that works like so like our reusable jars that we just talked about, those can be used for half of the things that I probably put stuff in baggies for, you know, I've use a use that instead. Yeah. Or saran wrap, you know, use a jar. Yeah, exactly. And I think the other thing is like, take it slow. So this Vox article also quoted Lauren Singer, who is the founder of the package free shop in Brooklyn. And she has a really good outlook on all this stuff. So she says the way she did it was when she ran out of something, she thought about whether or not she would want to try a more sustainable option. So like, if you're out of toothpaste, maybe you could try making your own if that sounds like fun, or you could research the different options out there of like more eco friendly toothpaste or same with Windex, like maybe you could try to reuse the bottle and make your own or, like me, if you notice how many plastic forks are throwing away. Yeah, make a little baggie and carry around a fork and a spoon from your door or buy reusable wine or whatever. Use your little silicone. And it's not. So it's like not supposed to or be possible for any of this to happen overnight. Yeah, yeah. Don't just go out and buy all new metal straws today. When you have a package that your kids are using, you know, just right, that you're just gonna throw away. Yeah, right. Yeah, I don't know. I find it a little bit overwhelming. It's a lot to think about. It is I mean it again, it's Oh, yeah. You know, it's sad. Like, this isn't the cure all. We're not going to. I mean, maybe I don't know, they didn't talk about reducing the problem of straws in the ocean getting stuck in sea turtles noses, which is the reason everybody quit using straws in the first place. But right. But that's yes. But that's the thing. That's what I was saying. Like, there's plastic pollution on the one hand, and then there's global warming on the other. Well, yeah, it's like, their plan just sucks. Yeah. Yeah. And it's like buying it's like maybe using a plastic straw once in a while is better for global warming. Then get going out and buying a metal one. Yeah, but it's not better for the turtles. Right? So it's like, damn it. Yes, it's very hard, but Again, like there is a way to make it better if you are conscious about the way you reuse it and straws, especially you can put in your dishwasher. So yeah, those straws. I mean, straws are, again, I've had mine for four or five years. So right, and they're good. And they're fine. Yeah, they're not wearing out and not throwing them away. Yeah. And in a way, it's like this is kind of overwhelming and depressing. But it's also kind of puts the control back in our hands because we can control how we wash these things. So if that's really the problem, which it sounds like it is, then, you know, we can impact that directly. So that's kind of cool. Yeah, that is cool. Yeah. Here's education. Right. So yeah, I left this episode kind of open. I don't feel like I don't know. Anybody knows enough about this. Yeah. Or like most people don't know enough about it to Ryu to use this stuff in an effective way. But that doesn't mean it's that nobody should do it. Yeah, it doesn't mean people can't learn. Yeah. And and I mean, it's just a reminder that thoughtless consumerism is the enemy here. Right? The biggest enemy that we have towards towards being eco friendly, is just consider why and how your purchases, you know, why are you buying this? And, and the impact that it has? I think that's, that's the important takeaway for me is right, just because it says, just because you think you're gonna reuse it, and it's better. Like, if you don't use straws, don't buy metal straws. Just the right. Yeah, and if you do buy a metal straw, and you don't use it, like don't kill yourself, right, you've got to don't beat yourself up. Yeah. Give it to a friend when they come over. That's that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah. Pretend it's brand new and re gifted. And I'm just getting it. There we go. Yeah. Hey, do you need a straw? I mean, it's nice to have straws to you know, for cocktail parties and things. Right, right. Right. Right. So yeah. So does that make sense to you? Because I just felt like it was a little open. But no, I think I think but that's, that's the trick. There's no fast answers to real thoughtfulness and real. I mean, even the real eco friendliness. There's it's nothing quick. It Yeah. Which is kind of fair at all. It is. It's hard. It's hard. And it's anti modern American culture, because we want things fast, and we want things easy. Yeah, there's, you know, sometimes it's just a long obedience in the same direction, and you do what you can when you write about it. Yep. Well, I think that that was that was maybe one of our better episodes. So think, Oh, thank you. Yay. So a lot of nuance. I mean, yes, that's the thing. I felt so good about the fact that I have reusable straws and reusable plastic bags, and maybe I don't anymore, maybe I don't feel like that, like solve all the world's problems right there. Maybe that's maybe that's okay. And maybe that's okay. Yep. That's the hard thing. Well, thank you for listening. Yeah, thanks for all that research. That was really good. Next week, I'm going to be talking about online consignment stores specifically thread up which is the one I have experience with. Me too. That means we're talking about fast fashion to Gird your loins. I am really excited for this one with a dress you already have. I hope don't go out and buy new Gerding new wine greetings, please. reuse your grading. Use your earnings. The takeaway? I want to give you that that teaser for next week. Oh my gosh. Okay. I'm very excited. So can't wait to hear it. Awesome. Well, thanks, Steph. Thank you. I'll see in a bit. Okay.