Is Switching to Natural Deodorant Worth It?

natural deodorant is a perfect example of personal health versus environmental health and how they're often lumped together as one. So if you look up natural deodorant online, you're bound to find something about a detox period. Yes. You've heard of this. Okay. Yeah, sickly in my opinion. It's some health hooey. But maybe other people will disagree with me. So the super popular natural deodorant brand native has a blog post devoted to this detox period. It says the detox period refers to when your body is releasing any built up bacteria or waste from your armpit area. And it can occur during the first weeks of transitioning to an aluminum free deodorant. During this time, some people do experience more odor and sweat than what they're used to. It's only supposed to last this is unquote. It's only supposed to last two to four weeks, and then the natural deodorant will get more effective. And my question is, has anyone saying this actually tried it? Because like, I've been using natural deodorant for four months and I still smell still smelly. So I call BS on his detox period. Yeah, I think that's green Hui. I don't know if there's medical Hui? Yeah, healthy we is one. Yeah. However, there is one easy trick to get natural deodorant to actually work and pretty valid environmental reasons for wanting to try it. So today we're going to learn if native deodorant is the right way to go or if there are better and cheaper options out there. Welcome to greening up my act Oh, boy, oh, boy. Yeah, yeah, stinky armpits. Okay, I just my hackles go up whenever something medical says detox. Oh, yeah. Because time is huge. This is a thing like medical practitioners will tell you over and over again, you don't need to quote unquote, do a detox because your liver and your kidneys do that. They detox right if they're not functioning, that's a problem. Yeah. The best way to detox. Quit drinking alcohol or you know, eating junk food and your body will naturally you don't need to like drink lemonade or whatever. Yeah, your body will naturally cleanse itself. That's what it's for. It makes sense. And apparently your armpits naturally cleanse themselves. I don't know. I don't know about that. I know. That's what I'm saying. There's there's Yeah, we're gonna shout it out. You're gonna debunk it for me, baby. Yeah. So well, my armpit. My personal armpits are debunking it as we speak. So I will say I have not had a good experience with natural deodorant. Okay, most people haven't. I think I might have a trick for you. So Okay. Okay. Alright, let's first chat about my sources. Fast. I use Fast Company on plastic waste from deodorant. And the Guardian talks about is really quickly use them on paper versus plastic energy usage. And we get in a wanted to get into the health side of things because it's so funny to me. I feel like you can't not I feel like not you can't really can't. Yeah. And the American Cancer Society talks about anti per sprint. Used the Environmental Working Group for product ratings. They rate tons of products and we use them all the time. They also had a video on Thursday. lates lates vallot. Yeah, I always say like, tablets. Yeah. Anyway, they explain what the heck those are. Okay. The New York Times had an article or natural deodorants really better for you? Great article. Love the New York Times. Yeah. Yeah, well, sometimes, unless they're being bougie, but it's fine. And then I use natives brand blog. I also looked at TerraCycle on recycling deodorant containers. And I got some DIY deodorant recipes from tree hugger. DIY. I'm excited about that. Ya. So what is it? natural deodorant. First off natural is a green who we term because it's unregulated. Anyone can say it. I can make nonstick pan and call it a natural pan, right like a Teflon pan and be like this is natural and nobody would stop me. So I might try but yeah, legally they can't. I mean, I might be like, There's no way that's natural, but it was natural being right. So, so many doubt natural deodorants, their marketing is kind of out of this world. They love to use natural, clean, safe. A lot of them are paraben free, aluminum Free saleet Free, that like free. You have Daffy Duck saying tolerates vegan, cruelty free, all of the above. So four months ago, I just really wanted to test it. And I wanted to give myself some runway. And I'm glad I did. So I tried one called purely great cream deodorant, and it sounds great. We will chat about it a little bit in more detail later. But I also really wanted to look into native because native deodorant if you've ever listened to a podcast that's sponsored, you've probably heard an ad for native deodorant. And it's, you know, it's one of these aluminum free saleet free, paraben free. And the main purpose of this deodorant is to reduce the number of bad chemicals quote, unquote, so on. Okay, yeah, like that. Uh huh. Bad chemicals bad so bad, is on their website. They say what began as a curiosity about aluminum turned into a mission to make clean deodorant that could go head to head or pit to pit with antiperspirants. Okay. So I say I think like natural deodorant doesn't necessarily have an environmental focus. As far as like, these brands aren't. They don't say okay, sustainability is our number one focus. They're really saying these chemicals in our body is our number one focus, but it's considered a very eco conscious hippie dippie thing. I think this we keep coming up against this because when I was talking about I don't, I feel like you. They're very hard lines to draw. They're, it's blurred very, it's. It's blurred and when we talk about it, but I don't think it's actually really, I don't know, I agree with you. I feel like I it's hard. It's hard. Yeah. I mean, they they dovetail Mm hmm. But are they separable? Yes. I think they are separable. Yeah. Because not always obvious. Right? Like, right. Like, like, we're talking about like Windex, right? Like, one of the reasons cleaners are so scary is because of the health effects they have on people. Uh huh. But also how they're produced, you know, I feel like they those things tend to go hand in hand like things that are produced in these like mass factories with without concern for the environment also to nab no concern. I mean, human beings are part of the environment. You know, right. Human Health is part of the human. I mean, that's why it's so important to have clean air for us. I mean, not just for the whole planet, but for us, specifically, human beings need to breathe clean air. So you can't remove the human health aspect, in that sense. Right. But they're not necessarily Yeah, one to one. Yeah. And I think a lot of times, well, I'll get into it. So like, this native deodorant doesn't necessarily help the environment. Even though I think a lot of people think like, oh, it's helping me. They're helping the earth. And we need to think a little bit more nuanced about this. But we'll get into details. It's very tricky, though. Does it work? natural deodorant? Does it work? I think you probably have your opinions. So this is interesting, because according to The New York Times article, there are no rigorous and reliable studies that look at how well natural deodorant works. Thank you. Okay. I didn't think so. Yeah, it's never been studied in a rigorous way, in a way that we can actually, you know, accept, but antiperspirant which is sort of the devil among a lot of natural deodorant, pro, pro natural deodorant movement, antiperspirant aluminum. Those are sort of like the evil chemicals along with some other stuff, but that's a big one like native was started as sort of like a aluminum free experiment, I guess. Right? Any person is not in natural deodorants, but it can stop bacteria from growing. So bacteria love water and sweat, aka an armpit. So without it, you're probably going to smell worse. And that's just how it works. So without any embarrassment, you're probably go into smell worse? Not always from time to time I will say, for me, it's not. It's not like I don't smell bad right now. Oh no. Okay, there are ways to alleviate the smell. But does it work as well as my secret that's still in my frickin medicine cabinet that I haven't pulled out for four months because I'm just so determined. No, right? No 100% Absolutely not. This is where I tell you the trick. So, okay, in my case, natural deodorant does work. If I shower every day, which to be honest, I don't. Okay. Yeah, a lot of people do, but I don't I don't. I'm okay. Hmm. I don't have time. I'm right. Like I got a kid. I don't know. So if you shower every day, or wash, like actually physically wash your armpits with water and soap. Okay, so horse shower. I hate to call it that I was a horse bath. We can call it maybe a sponge bath. Okay, I suppose? Yeah, I think yeah, yeah. But the problem is, so you wash your pants with water and soap, and then you try them. But like you got to wash them kind of with something, you really have to pass them off of something. And that something is usually a towel and it will smell like your sweat. Yes. There's no way around that. Okay. And sometimes I kind of feel like I'm just wiping my sweat around like the smelly bacteria sweat. So that is an issue. But if you do actually wash them wash your pits. Well, and then you try them and then you apply this stuff. It works. Really? Yes, it actually does. And I'm not gonna say it last 100% As long as the secret that I have because No, but it actually surprisingly works. Okay, I have not found that to be true. You even if you're clean. Even if I shower every day. Yeah. And your your pits are clean and dry. Yeah, I stink. At the end of the day. That's the other problem with this. It's like every body is different. Yeah, well, that's, I think and there's also so much that goes into like, like, if if I drink more coffee. I smell different. If I eat onions, I smell good. I mean, there's so much I'm like, oh god. Yeah, if I was when I was pregnant. Oh my god. Other kids. I'm ovulating. I stink. Yeah, I could totally see that. Yeah, so yeah. So the thing is, I have not like people on the internet assured me stop smelling over time, because my pores are no longer clogged and all the toxins were really sure hasn't happened. Yeah. So like that detox period is a load of hooey. But it is kind of working. Okay. So better than because I've just used it sort of haphazardly in the past use it for like, I don't know, off and on. Yeah, it doesn't work for crap. And then once I discovered this whole, like washing my pits situation, then it has helped a lot. So it's really just a bacteria that smells and that's what you gotta get rid. That's and that's okay, so I have a trick that my friend Elisa told me, okay. And she's like, Yeah, just use glycolic acid. You mentioned this. Yes. And actually what that is did work. So glycolic acid, you can get it like Neutrogena sells it. It's something people use in their faces. I actually was using it on my face, too. But you can just buy it from like CVS, Walgreens, whatever, and you just put like a drop Robin in your armpit. And it kills bacteria. And then the next day you use the deodorant, and it's fine. But the thing was, I kept having to redo it. So at least once a week, I'd have to use a glycolic acid on my armpits. Oh, once a week is not bad. No. I mean, it's every day. Yeah. I mean, it was it would be like, I do it overnight. Yeah. Or like after I shower, I put it on, but then I just was like, Well, why am I using the deodorant at all? Well, that's the thing. Yeah, I just used the glycolic acid. Oh, that's so interesting. I might have to try that. Yeah. Especially if it's only a drop because I'm like, Well, you might as well just buy deodorant at that point. But if it's a job, yeah, but it worked. I mean, it just worked. I mean, so to secret for me. Anyway. There are other reasons. Other reasons people were guilty. Okay. Okay. talk me out of my secret addiction. Okay. Okay, is it easy to use natural deodorant? Really depends. So most of the popular ones like native or this exactly the same as a deodorant tube. Currently, native also makes a cardboard one we're gonna get into this. And it's similar but you do have to push push it up with your finger instead of spinning it but okay, I think it's from what I read. I think it's very similar. Mine is a cream so it's slightly harder but all I do is like use my finger. I mix it up a little bit. Take like a little pea sized portion and wiping out my pits. Okay, minus this is always after washing myself. That's the biggest pain in the ass. Nowadays. I'd rather clean is hard. It is I like Sundays. I'm just like, I'd rather just be smelly. From home, right? Yeah, who cares? Like that must all of this for you. So you don't have to peep for the listeners who have to smell us. Yes. Okay. So that has actually stopped me a couple of times. I've been like, Oh, I'll feel like it. I'm just gonna kind of bother. And then I just kind of smell it. But it is what it is. Is it actually eco friendly. So this was a very fascinating look into things because like I said, I had, there's two sides of this. So there's the environmental side of things and the health side of things. And I had to, like we mentioned look into the health side of things, because it's so fascinating. Yeah. Um, firstly, my environmental side of things. So, deodorant containers create 15 million pounds of plastic waste each year. Oh my god. Yeah, this is like the toothpaste. It is actually think toothpaste was worse because deodorant kind of lasts longer, but which is funny. I mean, yeah, I guess we're not using like, you know, you're not using a toothpaste. Okay. It's different quantities. But yeah. And yeah, deodorant, not like liquid usually. So anyway, yeah, you. But you know, as mentioned in the toothpaste episode, each container will take between 20 and 500 years to decompose. And like, if it takes 20 years, that means it's probably in the ocean. A while. Yeah, that's like your best bet. As far as like decomposition time, I think in saltwater, and it won't ever disappear. It's going to come in microplastics. And so yeah, like all of that is just unavoidable. If you use regular deodorant. For the most part, I will come I will mention some other options. So most native deodorants come in the standard plastic deodorant containers, and they the company addresses this, and they say plastic doesn't make perfect, and we're doing our part to help. reducing our environmental impact is nuanced, difficult and important work. And while we can't promise to get it right, every time, we can promise to be upfront and honest about our efforts. So I appreciate that. I appreciate the honesty. But then this is where I was talking about health versus environment. Okay. Later in the website, I found them a quote from native saying native deodorant is good for your body and good for the planet. Well, that's quite a claim. Okay. Good for the planet. How? Excuse me? No, no product is good for the planet. No. So there's Wow. So yeah, it's like all of this is so convoluted. That it's like really frustrating. So Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's very annoying. So you can't usually recycle deodorant tubes, because they're made of a bunch of different types of plastic. Yeah, I was gonna say there's like a lot of components in there. Yes, you can recycle them through TerraCycle. So TerraCycle and Tom's of Maine actually has a program. We talked a little bit about TerraCycle in our Redwall episode, but it's basically like a program that you sign up for. This one is free. And from what I understand you ship them your trash, basically. Oh, okay. And then they will recycle it for you. They have you know, these different programs have different things that you send in per program. So Tom's of Maine, I guess, just agreed to work together with TerraCycle. And they recycle actually a bunch of different types of personal care products like toothbrushes, toothpaste, all this other stuff. Okay. So it is free, but there might be a waitlist? Of course. Yeah. And all want to put our waste in something. Yes. But plus, listen to our plastic recycling episode, and you'll understand that we ain't gonna recycle our way out of this. No. So even if you recycle every single deodorant, whatever can tube it's still a scam. You can recycle plastic one to three times maximum. So, so depressing. Yeah. On the other hand, some native scents now come in cardboard tubes. And they look really similar from what I could tell. And the website says that using these can help eliminate 169 tons of landfill waste each year. Okay, I don't know where they get that. That's yeah, I'd like to know. Sure. But it's good for the earth native. So I don't understand, right? It's so good for the planet. Me. So, however, I remember we have talked about this off and on. And it's like one of those facts that's very hard to wrap your brain around because you don't want to believe it. But basically, the long store or the short wait long, long story short, is that paper and cardboard, according to the Guardian, embody far more greenhouse gases than their plastic equivalents when you consider the lifetime of the packaging? What we talked about this with like, reusable stuff, I think I can't remember what the episode was. But it was basically like, the canvas bag versus a paper bag paper, right? Or a plastic bag, right? Plastic bag uses like, zero energy to create, it just creates all of this waste. Right? So it's like, we're kind of talking about like land pollution versus air pollution. Lead to trade offs. Yes, it is. Yeah, that's what it feels like. And that's really frustrated with the upfront versus the back end. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It really Yeah. It's like short term versus long term. Although climate change is quite long term too. But yeah. So that's sucks. There's no answer is live like a caveman and don't wear deodorant. Like obviously, that's really just don't brush your teeth don't smell like me. So you know, that's something to think about or not think about if you don't want to think about it, but I don't want to think about it. Okay. I will. The good news is I have a solution. It does require you to use natural deodorant but anyway, do app do. Okay? I'm telling you, it's not that bad. Hey, grinning my axe listeners. Are you concerned about global climate change? Look no further? Introducing the climate conscious podcast hosted by the sustainability consultant Derval barzee. It's your go to resource for all things climate and sustainability. And we think you should give it a listen. The climate conscious podcast covers a wide range of topics from eco friendly lifestyle tips, which we all love, to sustainable energy and even discussions on environmental justice and gender equity. Discover the actionable steps you can take to make a difference. The climate conscious podcast where knowledge meets action, subscribe now on your favorite podcast platform. Some, like bite bite I talked about in the toothpaste tablets episode. Yeah, they are. But as you mentioned, launching into a consumerist massive amount of brand or mass amount of products. So now, yes, so now they have deodorant. And they're making refillable containers and you can get mailed the refill dove also has a real refillable option, which is really interesting. Have you ever heard of this? No. First off Dove deodorant sucks, but that's fine. But yeah, I'd never heard of this. It's not really I don't really go on looking on the shelves. So maybe it's on the shelves and you just don't see it. But the ratings are all over the place for this product. Like doves doves mom gets a five stars but a non right. Yeah. Because everybody said a lot of people say breaks off. So it's sort of like well, oh, shit. Okay, so other refillable options that tried to be a thing secret, tried it, but maybe two years ago, but then pulled it from the shelves within I think a year. Oh, wow. I wonder why? Because it's just I don't know. Is there no demand for this? Because that would be nice if there was because you could just like have the one plastic container. Yeah. And just reuse it. But I don't know. I don't use deodorant that often. I mean, I don't go through like, I just don't go through it. Like yeah, I'll have I feel like I have deodorant for a year. Yeah, it does last a long time. I mean, I it depends on your body. Right. Like I have friends who don't use it ever and they don't ever smell. I have other people I know like Joe has used every single day or he's smelly. So yeah. Yeah, it just it just depends but I guess in that way, it's different than toothpaste because most people are using that. I use it twice. Again, I use a nominal amount of toothpaste. Deodorant. Yeah. Yeah. So the health side of things. So we talked about the environmental side of things. Now let's talk about the health side of things. Okay, so in type per sprint, I love this. So, have you heard that anime per sprint is linked to breast cancer? I heard okay. I don't want to spoil it. But I did hear that aluminum was linked to breast cancer and then they said it wasn't. Okay. So aluminum is Is this right is aluminum. I want to say the aluminum is the antiperspirant. Yeah, there's something Yes. Or yeah, maybe it was linked to Alzheimer's two or something. Right? People have wild theories. Yeah, these things. So the, it's a rumor, and New York Times says that it's started in an email chain. The rumor the antiperspirant causes cancer started in an email chat in the 1990s. Wow, email in the 90s. You know how big of a deal that is? Did you remember this? Yes. You send this to 17 people and you'll get lucky to tonight or something? Yes. It's no, it's Facebook. Like, I can't believe I haven't thought about those things. And so long I can always existed. If you don't do this, you're gonna break your leg. I don't know what they said. But they're still like, tick tock has it No. Like, like and share this and you will find love. Like, it's still the same shit. Yeah, it's all the same. The same shit different era. In sim On a similar note, the American Cancer Society shows very limited studies on the link on any link between antiperspirant use and breast cancer. Okay, so is that because I haven't studied it? I mean, I don't know how you because it's the thing? No, actually, I think it's that there are no all of these studies have been done. And there's nothing in any of these studies to show that there's a link. Okay. Yeah. So it's not like with essential oils where they just haven't done the studies. It's just No, I don't think so. Okay, they were very clear. They're like, this isn't a thing that we can tell, but we still believe it. Yeah. Oh, it's still in the back of my head that every time I use secret deodorant, I'm gonna like, okay. One of the reasons that's one of the reasons I wanted to try natural deodorant, to be honest, yeah. So my mother had breast cancer. So it's like, Oh, right. Yeah, my aunt did too. So. Um, so, versus so I wanted to look up like, Okay, what's one Antiperspirant Deodorant? What does the Environmental Working Group think of this? So like secret antiperspirant plus deodorant in? Get this calm birch water scent? Did I? Okay, sorry to go off topic here. But one of my favorite Twitter threads in the history of Twitter threads, and I've been on Twitter. But when this gets reposted, I share it wherever I can is the levels of abstraction of Yankee Candle since Oh, my God, I should have seller. I'll send it to you. But it Yeah, it's like, what is? What is that scent? Because it'll be like, like level one is it's actually tied to an actual scent, like maple syrup. Okay, that's a scent, but then it will be like, level two level of abstraction is like autumn breeze. So it's like autumn breeze is an actual thing. But that's like, an ephemeral quality of, you know, like a shared experience. And it goes all the way to like, like summer dreams. Yeah. What is calming birch water smell like? Like, what level of abstraction is that? I think that's a level three. Like it's tied to something. But it's like an experience we have. Anyway. I love that so much. Yeah, I'll share that with you. I always do. Yeah, so the Environmental Working Group gives this calm birch water scent, deodorant, a five out of 1010 is the worst. Wow. Okay. And it says it has a low risk of cancer and reproductive slash developmental toxicity. Okay. The biggest concern about any of it is the fragrance, obviously for going to the park, because they can put whatever they want in it. Yes. Because companies use the word fragrance to mask a lot of shit. Yeah. And some of it actually is not very good for us. Right? We don't we don't know. We don't know. Yeah. The thing is not all companies use. phthalates are one of the things it's engraved. ballots, but not all the time. So that's the hard thing. And the funny thing is even The unscented version of this secret and Emperor sprint has a masking fragrance. That's a concern. Yeah, I'm like, You're unscented. What are you doing? It's sort of like the end like, back in the day like unscented laundry detergent actually had like, clean breeze sent. Yeah. Wait a minute. Hang on a second. Yeah, um, as far as aluminum goes, there's no evidence that it can be absorbed into the skin and increase breast cancer risk. Interesting. Okay, according to Harold, this is all from New York Times article. According to Harold Burstein, a professor of medicine at Harvard Medical School, he says, The Weldon's human studies have never really suggested this. And he says only a trivial amount of aluminum can be absorbed through the skin. We're probably gonna get so much heat for this because people are gonna be like, causes autism. Well, yeah, I mean, that's like the whole thing. But it's, I just like to look at the studies that have been done. And I'm not saying that there aren't people out there who that there aren't government cover ups? Because there certainly are. But I don't know. It was just like overwhelming the amount of information that I was like, Oh, this is the consensus, and this is not what we all think. Right? So it's just like science versus people's thinking is so different. A lot of DOD deodorant. natural deodorants will say that they're good for your microbiome, which is like a whole thing. Yeah. They claim to promote the growth of good bacteria in your armpits, but there's no real evidence of this. On natives website, there was an FAQ that asks, Are these deodorants really better for me, and I actually appreciated their response because it says our stance is that people should have options. If you are concerned. Concerned about aluminum, or phthalates, we have an option that actually works and helps you feel good about what you're putting in your body. Okay. And I will say, some secret and Old Spice spray deodorants were recently pulled for having benzene in them, which is a potentially cancer causing chemical. So maybe avoid the spray ones, because I think that's common thing. Yeah, I pray that seems to be like a common element and spray things. Yes. Yes. And yeah, we're gonna talk about dry shampoo and benzene might be. I think that's mine do it. So tell me it's the only thing I live off of coffee and dry shampoo. Well, you have to get where you are like a sustainable version and see if it works. I'm so curious. Because I need a bound. I have to have I options. Oh, there you go. All right. So as mentioned, the worst ingredient is fragrance. So really, anytime there's for any kind of smell, it can be can be not always like said. It can contain phthalates, and those help the smell linger on the skin. That's what it does. So anytime that smells going sticking around, it probably has lights. And these can be endocrine disrupting, they can reduce sperm count, they can mess with your hormones, they may harm brains and unborn children. Lots of bad shit that is linked to these things. So native doesn't use ballots. They use cyclodextrin instead. And I was like, watch that. The ew G Environmental Working Group says that that is a low risk chemical. So it seems like that's a good alternative. But yeah, I mean, all of that is like the one thing about Native is everybody says that their freight The smell is so good. I've never tried it. But everybody's like, Oh, I just die over the smell I have liked I mean, I've got it because like the perfume I wear or whatever is you know vanilla II and like, I don't want like a fresh cucumber scent. Or I hate powder. I hate baby powder smell. So like I wanted to use native because they have they have great scents they have like vanilla. I want to coconut one. Yeah, I tried the coconut vanilla and I really wanted it to work and it didn't. Bomber you can send it to me. I'll try it. Throw it away. No, it was Yeah. It's probably like hard. I know. I was like, I use it in like 2016 or something. No, I gotcha. Gotcha. Gotcha. Just I was hoping it's fine. I can also get man so that if you want to throw it away, you don't Right. Right. Right. Well, that was kind of interesting because you know, it's still fragrance and all of them. Most of them. There's an unscented option, which is considered the best option. Is it legitimately unscented. I think it is yeah, okay. Because ew G gives it like one like the best possible score. The opposite of how we do it, but I love it. Yeah, yeah, I know. It's funny. And their product rating, like their cleaning product rating is also the opposite. So it's kind of confusing, but yeah, you're like what? Yeah. Um, so, yeah. So is this? Is this actually eco friendly? Or is it just really good marketing? Yes. It's really good marketing. Okay. So I mean, because if you think about it, what are the benefits? You get? The benefit really is about the chemicals. If you're freaked out about aluminum, if you're freaked out about dilates, which are actually worth freaking out about, right? Yeah. Then. Yeah, I mean, that is the main benefit. And then you can get the cardboard option, which at least will decompose eventually, unless it's in a landfill. And then maybe 150 200 years from now it will. But again, cardboard might take more. So it's just really the only option here is to make your own. Sorry. I mean, it's just that I mean, it's not the only option, right? Like you can do whatever the hell you want. You can go by secret all day, every day. But the best option is to make your own. Gave it a granola rating. So each episode, we give a granola rating of one to five granolas one is soggy five is break your tooth off and you want you want your granola to be crunchy people seriously. Yeah. So for native deodorant, specifically, I gave it an two, which is sticky. Wow. Okay, because environmentally, it doesn't really help. You're not really doing much. Right? Right. It's still plastic, it's still or just like, it's not sustainably made. It's not like they're sustainably harvesting, you know, the sense that they're using or, you know, they don't get into how they get their products. I mean, like ingredient lists of every single thing that they used. And so in that way, but they don't tell us how, how their source or, or just even like the other factory, you know, raises electricity or doesn't wastewater, you know, there's all kinds of things that you can do to be a more sustainable company. Yeah. So I don't think it's like the worse if there's nothing this compared to secret, you probably better off with this. Okay. Right. Just from a health standpoint, from an even, even from a mass produce standpoint, you think? Yes, yeah, I would think oh, no, because it's like, once native gets really big. What's the difference? Huge. I mean, I was just looking at all of their sense. They have like, hundreds of sense. They have a lot. And they're in they're in. They're in HEB. I mean, I can get them at the grocery store. So yeah, they're everywhere. And yeah, like so on their website, they'll go into simple and effective ingredients. But all it really said, I mean, okay. They only talk about the actual ingredients and why they use them. They don't really talk about where they get them from. I mean, the truth is, they're using like, fewer things. Probably tapioca starch, shea butter, coconut oil, baking soda, all of these things. It just depends, right? Yeah. Like it. Yeah. Like how are you harvesting the shea butter? Like, yeah, yeah. Oh, and I forgot to mention how much it costs. Let's see. Oh, yes, that's the other thing. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is the thing that gets me. Yes, that's why I gave it a sticky because native is $13 per bar. And this is to their credit, even the plastic free one. So the cardboard one is the same price, which I appreciated. Yeah. My the one that I tried purely great cream deodorant is$11.24. Okay, Amazon, and it lasted me about four months, which I think probably native wood to for most people. So mine was about the same price. A little bit trying to remember my sister tried to get me hooked on a brand. Oh, there's so many. There are so many out there. And they still came in like a plastic tube. I want to look it up. Keep going. Yeah, and I want to say when I was in college, I tried like a crystal. And that didn't work for shit. Oh, I remember that brand. Yes, right. That was a very hippie dippie thing I tried and I again, I didn't know how to use it. I just started smeared it on and but yeah, just a rock that was smearing on my armpits and it did not help the smell. But then I looked up one bar of regular secret cost about six bucks. Yeah, it was like half the price. Yeah. So it's less than half of the price. So oh, it was type a type A was for Oh my gosh. 15 bucks plus five $6 shipping. Oh boy. Yeah. So I didn't even look at their shipping. Oh, no. Well, native you can get anywhere. Really? Yeah, you can buy any I didn't like the flavors they had either. Sorry, Julia. did not love your natural theater. Well, it's a very personal thing. Yeah. So I would say recommendations, like TLDR. Just make your own. Okay, tell us how to do that. Right. Okay. Yeah. So, like I said, I got this purely great cream deodorant. All it means is, it was three things and I just looked up on the ingredient label and I just recreated it once I ran out. So I put two teaspoons. And I'll put a recipe little recipe chapter in the in Yeah. chapter markers. So that when you're later you're like, shoot, I really want to try this natural deodorant, but I can't remember the recipe. You can just click on the recipe part. Yeah. So try two teaspoons baking soda. One half teaspoon cornstarch. Which is weird to put on your deodorant. And one half of a teaspoon of vegetable glycerin with Okay, yeah, talked about a little bit. I think you probably even know more than I do about it. It's used in a lot of moisturizers. Yeah, we use it to make slime sometime. Okay. I love that you're just making slime but Hash House Harriers baby slime. It's really are it's kind of like a lube. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, and it's sort of what a lot of people call like a more natural option. If you find that baking soda irritates your skin, you can use apple cider vinegar, cornstarch, or witchhazel to replace the baking soda part. The baking soda does help with the smellies Yeah, it's absorbent. I mean, you put it in your fridge to absorb smells, so but it does. I have heard it can cause a rash if you leave it on. Yeah, it hasn't for me yet, but I don't think it will. But you know, there's a lot of other options that you could try if it does for you. glycolic acid. There you go. I might try this. You can. Oh, so what I did was I just use the original container from the purely Great. Oh, mixed it in there. Put it in and that's great. Yeah, so I got my little little container and it works works fine. You added a scent to it or anything. It's just something I didn't. I don't trust those essential oils. That's right. You're a lot heavier on it than I am. I'm like I like lavender. And you're like No, no, ma'am. Not in this house. That's why I get a headache when I walked on the cleaning. i It's true. You have no sense in your house is just perfectly scentless Well, I wouldn't say perfect because it certainly has trash in it still, the trash isn't gonna smell great. composts nasty. Yeah. And there's no pumpkin candle to cover it up. So this is what it is. But it costs literal pennies in saves a lot of plastic for the landfill. Okay, so I'm also going to link more recipe options from tree hugger. They there are others that use like coconut oil. Just tons of options and you really soothing, right? It does. And you can use essential oils. I'm not going to but you can. And a bunch of the tree hugger recipes have essential oils in them. So yeah, I mean, I made it the other day because I ran out and I was like, Hey, this is fine. And it's working. Like you have to do your your sink bath. It's the same it's basically yeah, it's the same ingredients. So yes. Okay, don't do it every day, but when I don't do what I do notice a little bit of a smell. I mean, there's also nothing wrong there also shower every day. I mean, that's always the water if you ask me exactly. I think you know, I know like bad hippie, but like we are obsessed over obsessed with cleaning to the point that it like the microbiome stuff. I used a bacterial spray for a while and it actually did work. But like, we do rinse off all the good bacteria. And like our skin needs like showers are very dehydrating our skin needs rest and like it's okay not to shower every day. I know. Yeah, totally. they, I mean, it's fine if there's a lot of benefits to showering, like you can feel good. But like, you know, sometimes you need a little, little funk. Yeah. And your hair, at least if I wash my hair too much, it gets super dry. No. So, and I can actually stimulate oil production to overwash. So yeah, I've heard that. That's why I never wash it. I'm just gonna. It's just a slump notice. But yeah, I mean, I am an advocate of it. I would advocate trying it, because I'm probably like, now that I've done it for four months, I am probably going to stick with it. Because honestly, I actually don't put it on every day. And I don't know. Maybe somebody else could tell me if I smell worse than I do. Let's ask your husband. I think there's there's also the trick about deodorant is you're supposed to put it on the night before. Okay. I've heard because then it works overnight. Huh? So that would make sense because you're not like sweating and creating bacteria and stuff all night. Well, you are. But I think after you shower, too, is a good time to put it on. I don't know. Like, a lot of people just put it on in the morning. And it's like no, actually, it looks better. If you do it. I learned that if you do it overnight, it works better. I'll try that then. Yeah, I usually do in the morning, so it will help. Well, I've hung out with you and you never stank. So Oh, good. I don't know if I was using this at that point. But yeah, I'm going to my friend's house or ask her like, Hey, do I smell that smell? Just could you just sniff my pet? Joe's probably like, immune to it at this point. He's like, Yeah, he's like, I can't smell you. That's, that's one of the things that the guy I'm seeing is very sensitive to smells. So like, He can smell? If somebody has been on an elevator wearing like the slightest cologne. He'll be like, Oh, interesting. So like if I stink? He can. I don't know. He doesn't think I stink so far. So that's a good sign. Yeah, we're genetically compatible. Very good. Yeah, so that's all I got. I mean, yeah, I think cool. Go for it. Like what? What's it gonna cost you a couple of teaspoons of baking soda and cornstarch. Right like you're probably not using it anyway. Yeah, my vague I hardly ever use my baking soda. It's like I need to put it in my toothpaste. I need it. Like I should put this baking soda to use. Oh, man, I use it for cleaning all the time. I have it in like a little easy to grab jar. I have the huge bag of it. Which is a bag fine. But I have it in an easy to grab a jar under my sink. And I just sprinkle it in my sink to wash. Sprinkle it on. Really? That's so smart. Yeah, try it and so so useful. I love it. It's my it's my spirit animal. It's my spirit soda. spirits out of spirit cleanser. Awesome. Okay, well, I'll give it a whirl. Yeah, give it a shot. You know? What can I hurt wash with my Dr. Bronner's soap, and then perfect. And then you'll be good smelling? Probably. Yeah. Probably the Yeah, the lavender oil in there. So, alright, cool. Well, thank you. Thank you. This was a lot of great research. And I, I'm glad we're talking about the line between products that are better for you and products that are better for the environment. Yes. Because I think in this movement, a lot of people don't don't know that you. You have to separate those. It's so easy. It's so easy to just be like, Oh, if it's good for me, it's gonna be better for the earth because it will and oftentimes things that cause cancer are bad for the earth. But yeah, and that yeah, that's, that's what makes it difficult is like a lot of times, like Teflon, like I said, Yeah, that's bad for everything. Yeah. But yeah, good for you good for the environment is not a claim that I think is good for you good for the earth and like, what kind of product can say it's good for the Earth? Maybe that exists? Like a no, it does. I don't think we can say that. Yeah, yeah. Because even I can't even think of anything. Nothing's good for the earth. I don't know if it was planting trees. Planting. That's not really yeah, you're not gonna Well, I guess you do by trees. Okay, fine. You got me there. My pollinator garden? Sure. There you go. Your pollinator garden is good for there. But it could be argued that the gas I used and the packaging and the blah, blah, blah. You're right. If human beings didn't exist, the Earth would be different. But we do exist. So it's not hypothetical. Yeah. Let's go into Yes. We drive cars. Yes. But it is it is really it is. It's interesting and very tricky, because a lot of companies in their marketing conflate the two Yeah, And it's frustrating. Yeah, for sure. Well, I appreciate your research, madam. Thank you, madam. For listening. Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. What are we talking about next week? I was just I was just looking that up. Let's see. Oh, yay, let's stinky and sweaty. I see what it is. Oh, what is it? You're talking about beauty counter. Oh, yeah, makeup. Okay, this one is I think this is going to be a rabbit hole because again, it's better for you is the issue. Right? So sustainably produced like I don't I don't even know if any makeup companies claim to be sustainable. They're all just about how they don't cause you cancer. But yeah, there's some interesting stats. I know that of a woman that I knew in high school, who never wore makeup she's like, you know, the average woman eats like consumes inside of her body. A certain amount of makeup over her lifetime was like several pounds or something. And it was like Yikes. So you to like that fake statistic about spiders? Well, I think she chews she's legit like She's just kidding. But it was some something that was like yeah, oh boy. So I'm interested to look into if there is sustainable sustainably made and good for you and good for the environment. You know? I think about beauty counter, but I did see something about them online. I was like, oh, cats gonna talk about them. Yeah, you'll probably know that we've talked about a Google is gonna give you all the Oh, lord. My phone is listening. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you for listening. Everyone who's listening. We appreciate you. Yes. And if you want to check us out on Instagram we are on we're at at greening up my act. We like to keep you apprised of any cool stuff we found. Yeah, I'll post we'll post the I just sent you the link to the Twitter thread about obstruction and Yankee Candle sense. Perfect. I love it. I could share it. It's a good one. Makes it sound like intellectuals. Ish. Sure. All right, cool. Well, have a good night. You too. Talk to you soon. Bye. Bye.