Greening Up My Act

DIY Dishwasher Detergent: Our First Soggy Granola

May 30, 2023 Kat Cox & Tiffany Verbeck Episode 11
Greening Up My Act
DIY Dishwasher Detergent: Our First Soggy Granola
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Join Tiffany and Kat as they spiral into a rabbit hole filled with  vegetable glycerin and citric acid and salt -- and charts tracking it all -- while Tiffany tries her hand at homemade dishwasher detergent. Spoiler alert: It doesn't go well.

But fear not! They offer an easy (and totally free) trick you can do today with your dishes that will be way more impactful than charting your way to madness. (Oh, and learn why you might want to steer away from pods - yikes). Get all the deets in this episode of your favorite green living podcast.

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I had to make you know tomato soup does not come off. hardens into this latest permanent is a glue actually. Yeah, it's yeah I use it they can most cultures, houses together with it hi Tiffany. Hi, cat. How are you doing this evening? I'm doing pretty well, aside from dealing with a daughter who pooped after I put her down to sleep, but better out then I always say you always say that about Oh, yeah. That's true, though. It's true. How are you? Oh, good. Just summertime and started here. It's my first so time for the heatwave. actually been really nice. Okay. It was like, is it actually hot? It's supposed to get to the 90s this week, but it's been raining on the weekends, which is nice for us just so dry last year that hopefully none of our tomatoes die this year. But yeah, I had that problem. Last year to all of my raspberries. I was just too lazy to water them. And the year before I didn't need to so I just didn't. And then we go for raspberries the whole season. It was sad. Yeah. My grandfather used to say in Texas. Well, if it doesn't rain, I don't have a garden. So ah, yeah, he wouldn't water things be in pretty good crops. And yeah, I mean, yeah, I was gonna say I feel like, that's probably the smart way to go about it. Water conservation wise. Yeah. Still, it's nice to have. Yeah. You know, like, when you plant things, it's hard to watch them die. And totally, yes, I actually just planted a whole pollinator garden in my front yard. And I'm really excited. Actually, my friend Julia came and helped me and I was like, thank God, because this is a lot of work. Gardening is hard. It is, especially as you're learning, you know, like, we're, we're playing scope or there's you interact with each other. Which ones like the same kind of soil? Yeah, exactly. And I'm really just guessing and using resources. My state actually Maryland has really good charts and stuff, but that's good. I'm guessing but I'm like trying to go native trying to go pollinator friendly. So we'll see how it works out. I'm trying to I tried to do pollinator friendly and anti mosquito mix those did not know that was even a thing. Any items, and I just planted some of those. That's good. There's a few others that Whoa, the mosquitoes don't like so I had no idea. Yeah, I planted some from seeds, just because I had the seeds. I was like, oh, cool, man. It'll dry it. And there's like seven growing, so that's nice. Yeah, geraniums apparently really like acidic soil. Oh, this is not I just put them in a pot. So. Oh, well. Oh, well. That's what I mean. You could bring them in when it's cold to them, though. Oh, yeah. Did they last? I have never had a geranium last. Okay. I was gonna say I think their annual right. Yeah. Which means they die. I can't remember. Yeah, they die every year if they're annual. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So I can update folks on my pollinator garden. But yeah, we want pictures when it starts blooming. Yeah, they're far from that. Oh, man this summer. Yeah, yeah. Next season. Yeah, totally. Alright, so you want to get into it? Yeah. Okay. So we should say, Welcome to greening up my right who are we? What are we doing here? What are we doing here? Tell me. We are rating basically Green Living Products this season for how housecleaning based on their effectiveness, their cost effectiveness, and their actual sustainability qualities on a scale of one to five granolas five being the crunchiest, therefore the best and one being the soggy is therefore the worst. Yeah, nobody wants soggy granola, grow No, or DIY green cleaning products that are actually worse for you. Or don't work or worse for the environment. Yeah, because a lot of green marketing stuff is like, Oh, we're eco friendly, but actually, it's just a word that we call green hooey. Because it is it means absolutely nothing, and nobody's really regulating it. So companies can kind of get away with saying a lot of stuff. That doesn't actually mean anything. So yeah, so he was speaking of DIY, that doesn't actually work. Well, why not bury the lead? No, I'm not. It's I'm being very upfront with this DIY dishwasher detergent. So I had a wild ride with this one because I like really wanted it to work and full disclosure, we're re recording this episode, because last week, I think I was like getting sick or something, but it just, I think I was also so frustrated that it wasn't working, that I like didn't know how to process everything that I was learning and all the research I was finding and my results and I was just like WHAT THE HELL YEAH. For sure, so annoyed. So I was like, Can we record I can do it so much better. Yeah. And luckily I get to cat was okay. And I think actually a lot of this is going to be new because I did really rework these notes. So it's not like you're just gonna have to sit here and listen to me say the same shit over and over. It's episode 11 point 2.0 11.1. Yes. So it was funny because like, I feel like most people think DIY dishwasher detergent is something that they can't do. Like there's going to be dishwasher police who show up or like the Maytag man. Yeah. You cannot have tears like you shall not pass straight to jail with you. And but you know, I was like, I'm having so much trouble with my dishwasher. Let us know, how do you feel about your dishwasher? Well, basically, I had my dishes were extremely cloudy. So they looked dirty. It was like, I might as well not have even washed them. I had to basically take vinegar of vinegar water rinse and wash them out again every time and like this is not to be clear. I did not ever do that unless we had guest speakers something Yeah. But if I really wanted them to not look like garbage, then that's what I would have to do. And everything tasted not everything. But a lot of the plastics have tasted like soap. So like my daughter's she would have dry, nothing wet, just dry goldfish in her little plastic cup thingy. And it would taste like soap within a couple of hours. I was like, This is disgusting. I feel bad for her. She's gonna grow up thinking like, oh, food tastes like soap. The most delicious cracker on the planet taste like soap. It's terrible. Exactly. So I was just having I really wanted this to work. I even tried two different recipes thinking like, surely for a love of God, something is going to work. I made a chart. And this was new. I made a chart trying to track all of the complicated variations that I was trying in my dishwasher. And all the ingredients I was using and all the results. And then finally, a couple days ago, I was like, Screw it like, this is not, this is not something that anybody else in the world is ever going to do. So why am I doing this? So for science? Well, yeah, but I gave up on my test. Because I was so annoyed. Yeah, so cut to the chase, you probably don't want to waste your time, like I did making your own dishwasher detergent. And I'll get into why next. But I did want to say that I found one insanely easy thing that you can do without buying anything starting today. You might already do this, I didn't, that will probably be a lot more impactful. And this is whether you wash your dishes by hand or in the dishwasher. And it's gonna be more impactful than making your own dishwasher detergent. So I'll share that with you toward the end. Stay tuned, stay tuned. First, I need to share my sources real quick. Okay, so I use the New York Times, a little bit about phosphates. We'll talk a little bit about phosphates and agricultural policy review from Iowa State University also talks about phosphates. I use compound Just for a What the heck is the chemistry behind dishwasher detergent? It's amazing that these things exist. Yeah, I'm the Center for Biological Diversity talks about phosphate mining. I use Aspen clean, it's a brand. I use their website. I also looked up the ingredients for finish quantum Powerball, which who? Spoiler alert, that's the dishwashing detergent that I use. I use Environmental Working Group which we talked about all the time, and they rate products from A to F based on their toxicity. attainable. talks about dishwasher pods which is going to be interesting. This is one of the most interesting parts is the dishwasher pods US National Library of Medicine I used. What was it a University of Zurich, they talked about the ingredients in most dishwasher detergents like the pre made ones, clean and green 101 tips for a more eco friendly home is by the book by our girl, Nancy birtwhistle. who we love. She's a hard heart. She had one of the DIY recipes. The book is really good. Unfortunately, this recipe did not work out for me, but that's okay. Can't be perfect. The spruce had the other DIY recipe. And a couple final things. I looked at the University of Michigan had an article about fighting climate change at the sink. Wow. Yeah. Found that. Incidentally, our other podcast name was going to be oh man. That's a cool one. I use tree hugger they talked about dishwasher this dishwashing version. Oh my god. dishwasher inversion, handwashing. And then the New York Times also had this really good article about how to make your dishwasher work better. And I was like, Please God, tell me because I'm so done with this. Alright, so those are my sources. That's what I used. So, let's get into dishwasher detergent and why you should just save yourself the time and the headache of making your own unless you're a glutton for punishment. The basic reason is no matter how well a DIY recipe works for one person, it probably won't work for the next person. The New York Times wire cutter article that I mentioned that was so helpful, proved my point. Because wire cutter is a website that rates tons of products, tons of products based on how well they work. And they said, wire cutter is at least for now officially agnostic on the best dishwasher detergents and rinse aides. Oh, wow. I know, isn't that interesting? They say I found the products that seemed to work the best with my water supply in my dishwasher, but I'm positive that they will not be the best choice for everyone or even most people. Darn it. Isn't that crazy? I mean, it. It makes sense. I mean, it's kind of like, I know, shampoo, right? I know, the shampoo I use. Like when a friend comes and uses my shampoo. I'm like, isn't that gonna work on your hair? You're not gonna enjoy this? Yes, it's like different stuff. Different oils, different whatever. But in your water. It's like nobody's water is exactly the same. And nobody's dishwasher. Yeah, it's the same brand. And it works totally differently just randomly. Yeah. And it depends on whether you clean it or not. Which apparently, you don't really have to, like clean my filter at least once a month. But yeah, I hear I don't know where mine is. I have an old dishwasher, which doesn't necessarily mean it's, I don't think that I don't think the dishwasher is a problem. But it hasn't convinced you this, this whole project has not convinced you to buy a new dishwasher. You know, especially because I had a maintenance guy come out and it was just the seal that was broken. And he was like, No, you need to keep this dishwasher for as long as you can. Because no, it's not the most water friendly, or water saving. But he's like the new ones are junk. And my brother in law bought one I think I think it was as a dishwasher. I know he had trouble with his refrigerator, and I'm pretty sure his dishwasher broke. A brand new one broke within like, a couple months. And he said it's just been a nightmare. I'm like, Alright, I'm gonna keep this like old lady chugging along for as long as I can. I mean, yeah, Better that than in the landfill, you know, is still doing his job. I know. I'm thinking. And well, one other interesting thing is that I found here I have a it's here somewhere. But it's basically like, If your dishwasher was made after 1994, then it's probably going to use between like seven and 10 gallons per load. Which sounds kind of like a lot. And I'm sure the new super eco friendly ones use less than that. I think I've heard that some use like three gallons, which is great. Yeah. But I'm like, I don't think mine was made after 99 or before 1984. I don't think it was like after 94 isn't okay. Before 94. Okay. I don't think it's more than 30 years old. So I think it's probably on par with a lot of the ones on the I'm sorry, I just had a heart attack that 1994 is 30 years ago. You know, right. That's like 1015 years. I know, I actually didn't do that. I was like, There's no way. That's correct. Yep. All right. So I did and I'm, I'm going to just share the highlights of this because it goes deep. It goes deep. I looked into what is dishwasher detergent, and I just feel like it's not really necessary because I'm not advising anybody to make their own right. But I do find it kind of interesting, especially if you're on the market and you're shopping around. The wire cutter recommends experimenting, so experiment away, which I'm gonna have to do now, but I wish they sold sample do they sell samples of detergents? I don't know. Because then you could be like, Oh, this is the one for me. But they should the hard thing is it usually takes like a week for you to figure out if it's actually working on you gotta use. But yeah, if you have a weak sample weeks worth of a sample, yeah, yeah, that would be nice, actually, but they probably don't companies don't want that. They just want you to buy a little bit. Yeah, so real quick compound. says dishwasher detergents are made mutually from salts that prevent limescale buildup. Okay, they're made from builders like phosphates citrates. Poly carboxylates that soften water phosphates are kind of out. I'll explain why in a bit. So they use surfactants which are soap and they remove grease and food they use alkalis. If I grease enzymes, which apparently are extremely important. They break down starch and protein they use either like a bleach or peroxide releasing compound that takes away color. What I'm kind of like, confused why they would need to take away color, but whatever. And then some dishwasher detergents contain a rinse aid. But a lot of times you have to use a rented separately or they tell you you do I don't know if I believe it, but I didn't look into rinse aid. So, so quick note about phosphates. That was the first thing I ran into in my research was, oh, phosphates were banned in, I don't know, New York Times says 2010. But they said like 17 states banned phosphates from dishwasher detergent, and everybody just like, everybody in the ICO world is like, no phosphates are terrible. Basically, phosphates can cause algae, like too many phosphates in an waterway can cause an algae bloom, which reduces oxygen and potentially kills off the fishies and other organisms living there. I hate a toxic algae bloom. They're the worst. Yeah, so it's not good. But we have just for the record, we have this algae that blooms in the lake here in Austin, and it kills dogs. Oh, yeah. I don't know. I'm curious, actually. Because I've we have the same thing. And there were signs that were like, do not let your dog swimming as water. I don't know if it's the same thing. If it's caused by phosphates or yeah, just heat in general, it's hard to say, I know, I heard that climate change is making them way worse, or maybe way more frequent. But that would be kind of interesting to look into. Yeah, yeah, algae blooms are not good. So. But the interesting thing, and this is just one study and one opinion, but the agricultural policy review says that because phosphorus limits have already been introduced at wastewater treatment facilities in the worst affected areas, that phosphate bands aren't actually that effective, because the wastewater treatment facilities are just they're not lowering how much they lead out into the water. Okay. Yeah. Cuz their limits are the same. So they're not, they didn't really change. This is what this study said. So I was like, Oh, that's so interesting, because everybody thinks like, Oh, get rid of this thing. Don't have it. Right. Yeah. It's basically like phosphate bands just made it really like a lot cheaper for them to operate. But it didn't necessarily mean that there's less phosphates go being released into the water, right. But on the flip side, I was like, but I guess phosphate mining is probably really bad. Yes, I looked it up Center for Biological Diversity says strip mining for phosphate rock violently transforms the environment in irreparably changing the character of the natural landscape. So I actually think you can still buy detergents with phosphates in them. So it's sort of like a, I don't know, a mixed bag, they do apparently make the detergent work a lot better. Like the New York Times even said better for the environment worse for your dishes or something. Okay. So that's kind of hard. So we're kind of like, I don't think we're playing catch up anymore. But without phosphates, it's a little bit tricky to get super clean dishes. Okay. That's the sacrifice you make? Yeah, I think so. Yeah. So I don't know, I just found that whole thing kind of interesting. But the other ingredients that I found in finish the finish quantum, that product was rated A C from the Environmental Working Group, which isn't bad. But then when you get down into it, I counted on the Environmental Working Groups website, I counted 16 ingredients, where there was at least some concern for things like acute and chronic aquatic toxicity, general systemic slash organ effects, damage to DNA, which I had never seen before. Cancer and more fun things like that. All the fun. So it's really hard because it's like, I don't know, I just in my gut, don't trust this finish. And if you like, I taste it on my dishes. You know, so if I can taste soap, then I'm definitely ingesting it. My daughter's ingesting it. So I just feel like, I don't know, I feel like I need to find something else. Even if the Environmental Working Group rates at a sea which isn't that bad. Yeah, it's not stellar. Right. I thought it was gonna be way worse, actually. But yeah, fair. That's always a surprise. Yeah, fun surprise, right. But for example, they do contain alcohol ethoxylates that can cause acute aquatic toxicity, which is verified by the National Library of Medicine and potentially damaged gut health, which is there was a study from the University of Zurich that said, this ingredient, even the residue might cause damage to your gut health. So Wow. Okay, so no, thank you. Yeah. But it's also hard because I, it works. Well. Sounds like you do. So I'm still not sure but we'll get there. I needed to talk about the pods real quick because everybody thinks that these pods pods are environmentally friendly because that's how they are marketed so the film that a pod comes in Aspen clean, for example, is one of the best rated brands by the Environmental Working Group. They marketed their dishwasher pods as eco friendly dishwasher pods slash natural slash non toxic green Hui, well, okay, it is it actually is you right? And so, on its website, it calls the stuff that the dishwasher pod film is made from which is polyvinyl alcohol polymer. It calls it water soluble and biodegradable. So the pros about pods they do use less water, probably than liquid detergent. However, I found they are marketed as biodegradable. But according to the International Journal of Environmental Research and Public Health, in 2018, this is a quote due to its in general increase in usage PVA polyvinyl alcohol polymer was considered to be one of the most ubiquitous pollutants in wastewater. Oh, gross. Yeah. Because everybody's using pods for their laundry for the dishes for their it's just convenient. It's easy dosing. It's yeah, yeah. And that's, that's one of the funny things is like the finish detergent I use is comes in powdered form. And the New York Times says later, if you taste soap on your dishes, you're probably using too much detergent. And I'm like, I stole it in half. Yeah. Just get blue everywhere. Yeah. The little red Powerball? Right, exactly. So that is kind of frustrating because I'm like, Well, I guess I have to get a powder. And that's my plan. But about these pods about this film, the study said we don't understand its path and breakdown in water. And as much as 75% of it is untreated and enters waterways. It can foam which might inhibit oxygen transfer and harm aquatic life, which is great. Not and also because of its heif hydro Felicity, which we looked at last time, and I think it means water, water loving, like how easily it dissolves in water or mixes with water, basically. Yeah. So because of its hydrophilicity it can absorb dangerous chemicals and contaminants like antiviral antibiotics and heavy metals at high concentrations. When eaten, these can make their way up the food chain. So the little fishy, you get gets eaten by a bigger fishy and then it ends up on your dinner table and your daughter is eating that on her dishes and in her fish. Yes. Well, maybe not on the dishes. I guess antibiotics probably would be on the dishes. Oh, yeah, yeah. But then for flavor, right. And then plastic says that strict conditions must be met for it to fully biodegrade. So it's not naturally returning to the environment, just like those trash bags. Yes. Just like the compostable trash bags. Boo. Yes. And notice it's called biodegradable. That's a green Hui term, right? biodegradable? Yeah. compostable is, is something that has to be regulated but biodegradable is not because on a long enough timeline, everything returns to the earth. Yes, glass. I think. No, you're not glass. That's not a good example. But like rocks. Yeah, like, if we get hit by a comment. Yeah, my my twin sister who's a rocket scientist says again, if enough time and pressure anything can turn into dirt. So yes, exactly. Might be a million years, but it's enough time. Right. So that definitely made me rethink using pods. I'm gonna try to avoid them. I only use them in my dishwashing my dishwasher but yeah, yeah, it was pretty down to I've quit ever since we've run out of my last tide pod or whatever. Perfect. I'm using our washing soda and Dr. Bronner's Very good. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's awesome. So real quick, I'll get into the DIY options because I tried two of them. So Nancy, if you want Nancy Burt whistles recipe you're gonna have to get her book because I'm not going to it's quite complicated. Good. The problems were set. We're also look for her. Yeah. Love you buy her book. She actually has three now I just ordered the other two. They're all really good. Ooh. And so basically you have a powder detergent and a rinse aid and the powder detergent has washing soda, baking soda and green bleach. And then you have a separate jar where you mix vegetable glycerin, rubbing alcohol, vinegar and lemon essential oil. And you add each of these to every load before every side ago, I found it a little bit of a pain in the ass to be honest. It's just kind of a lot more complicated than a pod for sure. Yeah. But the nice thing is all the ingredients are legit, because none of those ingredients are I mean, everything's harmful for the environment, but it's on some level. Yeah, yeah, none of them are really bad. So you know what you're getting, you know what you're putting on your food, your blah, blah, blah. But it's too complicated in it for me left a film on my dishes. I don't know what it would do for you. Yeah. So then the spruce, I actually didn't try their exact recipe because we'll link it. So if you want the actual recipe, you can go to the website, but they use washing soda, borax, kosher salt, and then the food grade citric acid that I was talking about. I don't like borax, because the Environmental Working Group rates at a DEA. So I was just like, I'm not gonna use that. So I just like doubled the washing soda that may have affected the efficacy, but I don't know. It's just it just it's not really worth it. Because it's like if you're still using borax, and are you really saving? What are you cleaning? Maybe it's cheaper. But yeah, right. And that is a little bit. And that's actually my next. So I did. I actually did a really in depth cost analysis. And I like really tried to do the math. And then I finally I was like, eff it. I don't care enough because there's so many ingredients. And I'm just like, I can't so many ingredients. And also there. Have you noticed if you try to compare like ounces, you have to compare apples to oranges. It's like ounces to cups. You're like, How in the hell am I supposed to tell ounces in a cup? And literally, I googled that. I was like, how many ounces? Anyway, so that was a whole thing. But you know, what would fix that? What? The metric system? God it's so true, though. My Nancy can do it. She's learned in the metric system over there in England. Totally. And actually, it's funny because on her recipe, it is in the metric form. And so I have like trained. Yeah, it was like seven and a half tablespoons. I was like, why am I doing this is so stupid. Anyway, so it is cheaper to make your own. And this is a very much an estimate, but I estimated you would save around$3.50 to make your own versus getting the finished quantum Oh, per per box or whatever, per small package. So bigger, like 24 Load package. I mean, that's it's I mean, that's not that's nothing to sneeze at. But yeah, that's so it's definitely cheaper than the commercial stuff. But it's also definitely cheaper than the green detergents. Oh my god. I for example, Aspen clean, I do really love them. They are they they work super well. And all their products have been really good that I've used but it's $18 for 28 pods. What? Uh huh. Which is $1.21 per ounce. Washing Soda is eight cents per ounce. Wow. And you pay for shipping, unless you spend like 70 bucks. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So dirty Labs is another brand. They have a bio enzyme dishwasher detergent powder, that's $18. Same price, but they do 48 loads. So it's like twice almost, which is better. That is a little better. Yeah, it has two enzymes. I actually bought this one. And so I can let you know how it goes. Because I just was like, I don't know what else to do. There is a cheaper one by Thrive Market. I don't know if you've ever been marketed Thrive Market before. It's all over my Instagram. We've got people love it. I don't know if they actually love it, or they're just sponsored but hard to say. But they have one that's $6 for 75 loads. So that's actually a really good price. It might be cheaper than finished, to be honest. So it's a great price. And pretty good ratings, but mixed results. And so I'm positive that it wouldn't I'm just feeling like no, like I have been through this war. Yes, seeing the outcome. And the funny thing is I looked up like which which one that's decent for the environment will work for hardwater and Bob Vila recommended this one for called grab green. And it's 1950 for at loads. So it's also a pretty decent price. Write it in a from the Environmental Working Group. I was actually going to order this from Amazon, but Amazon reminded me that I already did. And I was like, come full circle. And I remember that I had it for a while and it didn't work at all for me and I think I gave it away so Okay, yeah, so that's we're really hoping dirty Labs has some better stuff for me, but I'm just gonna keep experimenting and cross my fingers. That's frustrating. It is I was like that's why this episode was so hard. I was like dang it. I really wanted to solve these problems, but yeah, I will. I feel confident it just I'm very impatient. So as promised, let's get into what you can do today without buying a damn thing. Do you want to know? Yes, you might not do it. You might already do it, but stop pre rinsing your dishes. Dun dun dun I already I have I fight my roommate on it. I love it that out of the sink, scrape it in the trash and put it right in there. I love it. So this okay, I'll get Okay. I'll just get to say this was the most frustrating part because everybody online was like, Don't pre rinse your dishes. There's this whole like, hashtag, skip the rinse campaign. And I was so on board and then I did it with the DIY stuff. And it didn't work for shit. No, yes. I still had peanut butter smeared on my spoon. I still had my casserole dish was not even remotely it's still basically had like chicken skin on it. I was like any we start with chickens get this come from? Somebody's putting chickens get into like, Okay, I'm gonna give you my gross disgusting secret. Okay, what I don't prevents but I let the dog lick the dish. Oh, that's my gross. Well, my mom goes to how do you know it's going to kill the spit in the mom. If the dishwasher can't wash dogs bit off the dish, then we're all doomed. Like, why are you washing them anyway? But it's true. If it's okay for my dog to eat it. I let him like the dish. No, I don't think that's maybe people listening will think that's weird. Or just lost. 30% of our listeners who enjoy these people are disgusting. No, I let my dog do that sometimes. Yeah, it's it's a treat for him. You know? Yeah. Except he's gotten so used to it. Now. He expects it. But yeah, no, he's no. He sits there. And he's like, it's time. I'm like, No, this is garlic. And he's like, I don't care. Hmm. I love it though. Yeah, my dog has gotten fat because we fed her too much. So we've had to cut back but oops. Yeah. Okay, so that's interesting. So do you ever because they do say scrape the food off into the trash or your compost? Fancy. And then just put in the dishwasher. And so the interesting thing is, when I did it with finish I it worked. Like yeah, I had to make you know, tomato soup does not come off. hardens into this like it was permanent is a glue actually. Yeah, it's yeah, I use it. I think in most cultures, houses together with it. Or wounds. Apply tomato soup and that. Don't take that home. Nobody do that. Please. Oh my gosh. Like a form of skin glue. Totally. Yeah, I didn't. I just was it was so hard for me to do. Like you have no idea how many times I had to stop myself from turning on the water. But I just threw the pot in. I didn't rinse it at all. I threw a couple plates in didn't rinse them at all. And they were really clean. Like totally, totally clean. I took some pictures just because I want to prove to people Yeah, it happened. Yeah. Put that on Instagram. But I've heard it's because the surfactants need a surface to react to. They need something to glom on to in order to clean better. Yes. So I learned this too. And I think it might even also be the enzymes. Oh, Mater that makes enzymatic detergents work better when they can clean to food. There you go. That is according to The New York Times, feed your enzymes feed your enzymes. So yeah, I was amazed. And the other amazing thing is how much water you'll save. If you don't pre rinse you have so first off a few because a lot of people think like oh I know a dishwasher does actually use half the energy 1/6 of the water and less soap than handwashing. When this is according to a study from the University of Bonn I learned it from tree But this is only true if you run the dishwasher only when it's full and you don't pre rinse your dishes and they also recommend don't turn on the drying cycle just let them air dry because why the hell not? I know what is it don't get their hot it's also it's your heating your house to Yeah, and use the normal setting the normal wash setting rather than the heavy setting. And I did that with my pot and it was fine. So the funny thing is is like this, I think it was this guy. John moral of the American Council for an energy efficient economy. I like it. He was like people are so reluctant to just try or maybe it was in New York Times I don't remember where I read this but somebody was quoted saying people are so reluctant to experiment and to try and I get it takes me to like I said I had to like write because then you have a load of dirty dishes. Yes. But the funny thing to run again. Exactly. But it's also like that's the worst case scenario right? You If you don't, the world didn't come tumbling down because your one dishwasher detergent didn't work. Right. Mr. Clean didn't come arrest you. So the Maytag man together. Good cop, bad cop. Yeah, so I found that really interesting, because I definitely fell in that category was like, No way will that work? Because we're just so ingrained. And it's New York Times has 65 to 80% of people do pre rinse. Oh, man. Yeah. So green says you might use two to six gallons of water per minute to rinse your dishes. And then so that's like up to 15 gallons per load. I feel like more than that, maybe. But ENERGY STAR estimates that you can waste up to 3225 gallons per year of water. Three, over 3000 gallons of water per year just because you're pre rinsing your dishes. As I'm saying. That's not Yeah, so that's why I was like, okay, thank God, I have something to give it to people because Jesus Christ is not going to be DIY dishwasher detergent. Especially because the pre rinsing only really works if your detergent is decent. So like I said, didn't work with my my DIY stuff. So there's probably a DIY option out there that will work for you. Nancy says hers works great for her. It's just not. It didn't work for me. And that's so sad. The New York Times also said something funny. If your dishwasher still sucks. Try a better detergent. Oh, wow. Okay, well, thanks. Thanks, doc. So to wrap up real quick, if you don't have a dishwasher, I had a request from my cousin. She wanted to know how to decrease her impact when dishwashing by hand because she doesn't have he either doesn't have a dishwasher or she doesn't use it. So there's one method that might even be out the dishwasher when used effectively, oh, are correctly in terms of greenhouse gas emissions? And this is the two basic method. Okay. Yep. It can. Okay, you know, all that. I didn't know that. So it can reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two thirds, according to the University of Michigan. Well, that's huge. Yeah, two thirds. And I think that must just be from heating the water. It's gotta be but basically, you fill one basin. If you have a double bass and sink that helps or you just I think you could just get two tubs. Fill one of them with soap slightly, not too soapy, but slightly soapy water and one with cool water to rinse. And then use that to wash your dishes. And you don't run the water you're not using eaten not even really have to use hot water. And they also say, you know, don't run the tap, and it's better to air dry, then use a towel. Yeah. I don't know why. I don't think there's something about air drying kills bacteria. Okay, I could see how a towel would just be slick, stopping and moving it around and moving things from one thing to another maybe. Okay, I could see that. Yeah. All right. So for my cousin, that's how you can try. You can try that. If you don't already do it. If you already do it. You're doing great. So you know, that's how they watched it. If you ever watch it a bar, you watch some time? Yes. They just did dunk it in this that dunk it in that and then then had they had the third set to have as a sanitizer? Yes. The tub method? Yep. Yeah, I was gonna say I worked in several places like ice cream shop. We did that exact thing. So yep. Yep. And it was always cold water, too. I don't remember it being like don't use the hot tap. Yeah, exactly. It's too expensive. So too long, didn't read. Unless you love experimenting a lot. Don't bother trying to make your own dishwasher detergent. It's so finicky, and the chances of finding the exact recipe that work for you. They just it seems slim to me. Instead, stop pre rinsing your dishes. All right, so I got to quickly granola rating it. Yes, let's do it. One to five. granolas I struggled with this a little bit. But I'm I'm gonna give it my first cell II I wish we had a noise that went wow. Wow, we've never had a soggy No, I think he just made the noise for us. We just record that for every episode and just perfect for us it. Yeah, I know. It felt like a big deal. And it's you know, it's one of the things we're trying to be really nice. Again, sorry, Nancy. But this one didn't work for us. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. It's got to work and it has to make sense. Like I said the kitchen or sorry, the spruce. Their recipe still had borax. So it's like that doesn't actually make it any better. So you're doing all this work, and you still are using work. So yeah, it just it just wasn't it wasn't clear to me. Why? Why one would bother. Oh, bummer. Yeah, but now nobody else. Yeah, you did it. Thank you. I did it. Yeah, so glad it's over. It's not over for me. I still have to experiment, but I'll let you guys know how the dirty labs one goes. Yeah, I want to I want to full review. Well, maybe you've just did an extra granola rating on that one. Yeah, there you go. That sounds good. Yeah. Alright, so next week, is you Yes, your turn. It's something we've been waiting for. It's are we going to eat our words on essential oils? We've been dreaming of it. We've been yet it took me like, four weeks to research this. I was gonna say, I finally have a thesis. I think I can Okay, I was gonna say that's it's a pretty big one. So I kind of felt bad giving it to you again. I did, like want to jump out the window. doing DIY didn't feel too bad. We appreciate your sacrifice. I was gonna say maybe we should have a new rating of like, how much therapy? Did Tiffany have to go for this one? Like, because we know avocado stains are top of your list for therapy. But what about dishwash? Because this has been a problem for a long time for you is this film is that in this soap taste? It's just it's not. It's not working for me. So especially because I'm not used to a dishwasher. I hand wash my stuff for years because my apartments in DC never had a dishwasher. So east coast it was like, oh, yeah, you had to wash everything. Oh, yeah. So it was like, such a shocker to the system. I was like, what is happening? I don't like it. No, thank you. Yeah, it's, I still have to teach so many New Yorkers and Philly people like don't don't rinse it. I'm gonna have to really really hit home that not pre rinsing thing with Joe. I think it's gonna take because I have called him a water waster before. I love him. I love him the worst insult you could throw at someone in this household? Yes, he's gotten way better. But I'm it's gonna be I think I'm gonna have to, like present hard evidence to him to to get him on board. Send him to the the articles you've read. Right? Oh, I do have a story. Yeah, about here's the what not to try. And I know this. From somebody else's experience. I had a roommate in college, but she just put like regular dishwashing soap, like dawn, and type into talking about this. We have like a foam party in the kitchen. Yes. You mentioned that at one point. I think even on the podcast. I don't remember what the hell you're talking about. But don't do it. That is so funny. Because that's like, I did not think that was real. You didn't think that would actually have I almost want to try it. But I should probably actually just use like a little bit. It would have been different. But it was like she filled the whole thing up and like, what were you thinking? She wasn't thinking, Lord, well, hey, I have my own. I want okay, I want to lift the gas on Did I mention this on the podcast? I want. When I lived in Italy, I was like 20 I was there studying abroad. And I lived with an Italian roommate and he was a little bit older. So his brain was developed. And mine wasn't yet tricky, older people. He was like past the 25 age mark. And so I left the gas stove on slightly. Doesn't really matter how much it is. But the knob was turned. He came home I fell asleep because I was a grandma like they all call me Nona because I went to sleep at like 11. And they were out until like three. He came home at like three in the morning. The whole entire apartment was full of gas. That's terrifying. Yes. And he smoked. So I was like, oh gosh, God, like just lit up in your butt. You could have died from co2. Are you covered? I think luckily, we just left her. We had our windows open because we just did but he like went through and was like, Oh my God. He was freaking out. I felt so bad and so stupid. Never did it again. Oh, god. No, I don't have gas anymore. But I would check like religiously. Yeah, but I am a little bit dumb in that way. Your prefrontal cortex wasn't even fully wasn't developed. We'll say that even though Yeah, I have more recent examples, but we'll get into those. Well, tonight, you're a chemist. So thank you very much. Exactly, exactly. So yeah, so next week's episode is going to be the last one of the season. And we've been talking a little bit sporadically about seasons. But all that means is that we're going to take a one month break to give ourselves time to make the podcast even better. And then we'll be back to chat about waste. That's going to be our next season. But we'll talk about that a little bit more at the end of next episode. So yeah, and if you have any questions or comments, please email us a greening up my It's been a very quiet inbox this week. So we would love to hear your thoughts. send suggestions and yeah, like what you want to know about. And Instagram works too. We check that also religiously, religiously. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for listening. Yeah, thanks everyone. Okay in a bit. Bye bye

Dishwasher Detergent Overview
Why Pods Might Suck for the Earth
Homemade Dishwasher Detergent
Recommendations Going Forward
TLDR/Granola Rating
Next Week: Essential Oils in Cleaning